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Click here to see what author Steven Brust thinks will happen
This is delightfully silly.
No way Vlad would EVER do a hit with a thrown knife. Also, he wouldn’t take a guy out in his own house–that just isn’t done.
After spending a few weeks learning everything about the guy, most likely, he’d find him walking somewhere, Loiosh would fly up and distract the wizard, and Vlad would put a knife into his back causing instant shock, then another into his left eye for insurance. He’d be holding Godslayer in his other hand, just to be safe. He would also, of course, be wearing his Phoenx Stone amulets to protect him from magic.
While Dumbledore putters around his headmaster’s office, chatting with the paintings on the wall, Vlad quickly says the name of the ridiculous candy he knows will reveal the stairs. Although he knows the wizard is elderly, his heart shudders to think of killing such a kindly old man–and then he throws a knife into Dumbledore’s back. As Dumbledore collapses to the floor, Vlad can’t see that the old wizard is pulling his wand out his sleeve. Nor can he understand why a decrepit-looking bird has just hopped down and is crying into the wizard’s mouth. Before he has a chance to finish off the job, he’s thrown backwards, crashing into a cabinet, causing a bowl of silver goo to spill all over him. Luckily, he gets Godslayer up in time to catch the fireball bearing down on him, but the second spell comes way too fast, and the assassin is transmogrified into a stuffed unicorn. Dumbledore, ever the kindly headmaster, presents it to a homesick Ravenclaw first-year, who gladly takes the animal everywhere–and doesn’t seem to grasp that plush toys are not acceptable replacements for handkerchiefs.
Loiosh can’t stop laughing.
Predicted Winner: Albus Dumbledore
(Dumbledore is a character from J.K. Rowling’s Harry Potter series; Vlad Taltos is the main character from Steven Brust’s Dragaeran books)
“No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style.”
This is delightfully silly.
No way Vlad would EVER do a hit with a thrown knife. Also, he wouldn’t take a guy out in his own house–that just isn’t done.
After spending a few weeks learning everything about the guy, most likely, he’d find him walking somewhere, Loiosh would fly up and distract the wizard, and Vlad would put a knife into his back causing instant shock, then another into his left eye for insurance. He’d be holding Godslayer in his other hand, just to be safe. He would also, of course, be wearing his Phoenx Stone amulets to protect him from magic.
Aren’t you forgetting Spellbreaker? Pretty sure that transmogrification spell wouldn’t make it though…
Godslayer includes SPELLBREAKER, which would break up most spells from Dumbledore.
Also, Lady Teldra would morph into the shape of weapon needed. Likely a dagger though.
Then he’d eat at Valabar’s.
I can not imagine Vlad underestimating a wizard (much less anyone he has taken on as “work”) as described in the description.
Vlad’s a bastard. He’s nice to his friends and his wife, he’s a good human being, but he still is a plotting, treacherous bastard when a job needs doing. He’d learn everything there is to know about Dumbledore and hit him whith a Morganti blade – don’t think even Phoenix tears can do anything about that.
Of course, Dumbledore will win, thanks to the HP fanboys-and-girls. I just hope to see a Hermione / Cthulhu fight, just for kicks.
There is no way that Vlad would just waltz into Dumbledore’s home and throw a knife at him. He would plan, he would follow Dumbledore for a month, and he would take him out with no fuss. Also, Fawkes would not be a surprise; Vlad always does his homework. The synopsis on this one is pretty poor, I am shocked that anyone could think that Dumbledore would survive against an assassin who is immune to magic.
Um, is anyone else having a problem opening the author’s comments?
Yikes, Vlad seems woefully unprepared here. He’d spend as long as he needed to study his target.
Loiosh would have taken on the crying bird for plenty long enough to let Vlad finish off Dumbledore.
Godslayer isn’t like spellbreaker, he doesn’t need to get it up in time to block a spell. It’s better, Godslayer would act to protect Vlad.
I’m afraid that this is just no contest if Vlad gets to plan an assassination. Maybe if Dumbledore attacked Vlad he would have a better chance.
Vlad would do his homework like a smart little assassin, but you can’t sneak up on Dumbledore. Dude’s got eyes everywhere. He would be like “Mister Taltos, how charming to see you. Oh dear, do you really intend to go through with this assassination plan? Do you think that wise?”
I think the only way to get the drop on him would be to play on his arrogance or on his protectiveness of his students. And that would take a /lot/ more preparation.
It’s working on my end, but we’re looking into it, as some of us are also having trouble opening them. In the meantime, you can just scroll down to the comments section, and check out Steven’s thoughts (he’s skzb).
To everyone saying Vlad would have a plan:
Unfortunately, with the rushed nature of the Cage Matches, there really wasn’t time for him to do his normal “stake-out-the-mark” routine. He was thrown into this pretty much blind.
And although Spellbreaker would have caught most of the magic (as it does with Dumbledore’s fireball), he still needs to get it up in time–and he was taken by surprise when Fawkes heals the wizard.
Don’t forget–Dumbledore is one of the greatest dueling wizards the world has ever known. He knows how to duke it out.
Um, why TWO harry Potter characters? Anyone? Anyone? SO Ender Wiggen gets to do his cage match with the whole planet of Krynn from light years away in his command center, but Vlad doesnt get one or two weeks to prepare? I call bullsh**!
And isn’t Dumbledore dead already?
One, it’s very, very doubtful that the sword that everybody other than Vlad calls Godslayer (and he calls Lady Teldra) needs to physically block spells, being designed to make the wielder competitive in magical conflict among beings of the next higher order up from Dumbledore. Two, we seem to be overlooking that for the last several books, Vlad has rarely gone two seconds without wearing two types of Phoenix Stone to block all magic that would directly affect him. He’s really, really not getting turned into a stuffed unicorn.
I love Dumbledore as much as the next guy, but between Vlad being functionally immune to magic and being a former professional assassin, the wizard is going down.
Dumbledore dies on p.556, book 6
But only Snape is allowed to kill Dumbledore.
+ Dumbledore’s got that mirror thing that warns him of approaching peril
karabaja:
hee hee, I know, I was just kidding about the “he’s already dead” bit. Still, you have to admit that Vlad would probably win if given a chance to prepare.
@karabaja: The mirror thing is a valid point, but as a scrying device that would have to detect Vlad, it’s unlikely to function.
@scorpiknox: Either of them would win if they, and not the other, had the chance to prepare and know their enemy. In Dumbledore’s case, knowing what was up would prevent him from wasting time using magic directly on Vlad and on erecting magical defenses (which Godslayer is even better at defeating than magical attacks), letting him start directly with what he can do against Vlad: indirect attacks like Apparating large rocks over his head.
I’m evaluating them in a “sudden encounter” sort of context, where to survive Dumbledore would have to figure all that out before Vlad could hit him with a weapon where the slightest nick means Vlad wins.
If both combatants have the chance to prepare and research, I’d say advantage slightly to Dumbledore, but it’s a real horse race then.
“Unfortunately, with the rushed nature of the Cage Matches, there really wasn’t time for him to do his normal “stake-out-the-mark” routine. He was thrown into this pretty much blind.”
I concur. Which is mostly the say that if Locke Lamora is going down to Rand on the basis of not enough time to get a half-decent con going, no way is Dumbledore losing.
Not buying it. The tactics that Dumbledore would immediately use in a rushed encounter — magically incapacitating Vlad, magically protecting himself — are useless. The tactics that Vlad would immediately use in a rushed encounter — poking the guy with Godslayer — are completely effective.
I know nothing of the hairless pothead genre, but Vlad is IM-MUNE to all magic. Plus, Lady Teldra will even protect his very soul. From the start, Vlad’s defenses are impregnable, unless Dumbwit uses magic to attack physically to destroy the body. Vlad can kill many different ways at once, permanently. This one is no contest, and it is ridiculous to see how the voting is going…
Vlad would win hands down. In addition to the plethora of arguements everyone else has offered we are forgetting that lady teldra (aka godslayer) reflects spell back at their caster in addition to making said spell morganti. This leaves dumbledore a crispy souless husk before he can trasform vlad. Sorry hp fans, vlads just to good.
Dumblydore is powerful in his own context, but lets compare the contexts. Voldemorte – the toughest challenge that Dumbledore ever faced – is probably on par with Morrolan, and Dumbledore died trying to beat him. Vlad has faced off against many things as powerful as Morrolan, though – some far more powerful, and some with far less preparation.
Let us not forget, after all, what Vlad is capable of doing when overmatched: namely calling upon the sea of chaos and using raw, uncontrolled Elder Sorcery – which easily as powerful as the Dark Arts. Given his psionics, his own sorcery, his elder sorcery, his spell-bouncing weapon, his favor of his demon goddess – really, Dumbledore has demonstrated that he has even a fraction of that? I can see Dumbledore winning if he brought Vlad’s wife into it and confusing matters for our loveable assassin, but otherwise I think he loses.
And it’s just criminal that Loiosh is cast as some sort of useless commentator. Boo.
The only reason I can fathom that Dumbledore is winning this is because most people voting haven’t read the books about Vlad Taltos.
I don’t know anything about this Vlad Taltos at all Josh, but I can’t see him hitting Dumbledore with a throwing knife in a fair fight. Albus has the magis to deflect whatever is thrown at him. Has to be Dumbledore from my (admitted) limited knowledge of his opponent.
Neil, the thrown knife (which I agree is not likely to be effective) is a red herring. The thing Dumbledore is not going to overcome is Godslayer, which is a sword designed (who’da thunk) to kill gods, which completely protects its user from magic and cuts through magical defenses like butter, and only has to nick you in order to eat your soul.
It is very nearly the perfect weapon for killing wizards with. Vlad is no slouch on his own, and would give Dumbledore a run for his money without Godslayer, but with her in hand, it’s barely even a contest. Dumbledore could win if he has time to realize he needs to use indirect attacks on Vlad (the aforementioned Apparating large rocks over his head), but he’d have to be crazy lucky to get that time.
@ neil Go, now, and get Brust’s books. Don’t stop to read the rest of these matchups. Don’t stop to wonder who this moron on the other end of the interwebs is that is telling you what to do. Don’t stop to get dressed. Go get these books. They’re incredible!
No surprise but Brust is right–no way Taltos loses this. (Or uses a throwing knife for a hit. This is even discussed in one of his earlier books as there is too much randomness involved. Who wrote this one?) As has been pointed out, Taltos is ALWAYS prepared for dealing with magic users and has fought beings many times more powerful than himself. Even with the absurd caveat that “he doesn’t have time to prepare an assasination” nonsense, he’s ALREADY set to deal with wizards. This is just fanboyism at its worst.
Just because he’s dealt with magic users in the past doesn’t mean that he’s going to win every time. I’d like to think there’s an expiration date for human assassins–even ones with powerful artifacts and friends.
And just because he’s never thrown a knife to assassinate someone doesn’t mean that he couldn’t (all protests from the, you know, author put to the side for the moment).
Finally, there’s no such thing as an “absurd caveat.” And I’ll please ask that you watch your language if you want to keep posting on this site.
@dpomerico It’s not just that he’s dealt with wizards in the past, Vlad has an organization of magic users with considerable resources that are trying to locate him every moment of every day. Vlad keeps magical protection at all times because to remove his protection is to be located and then attacked. I’m a fan of both characters but this one is seriously a no-brainer. Dumbledore could not win. Even with no prep time, Vlad takes the contest easy.
@dpomerico: “And just because he’s never thrown a knife to assassinate someone doesn’t mean that he couldn’t (all protests from the, you know, author put to the side for the moment).”
But it does mean that Vlad wouldn’t use a throwing weapon to assassinate someone. He says it himself, numerous times, that throwing weapons are mainly for distraction. So no, he wouldn’t use a throwing knife to kill someone (except purely by accident and luck while trying to distract the target). And if he did, he would most certainly jam a knife into an eye socket to make sure the target was dead.
I’ll add to (almost) everyone else that’s posted that Vlad is functionally immune to magic (at all times since he never removes the phoenix stones) and will use a soul-eating weapon to defend himself; phoenix tears can’t fix an eaten soul.
Brust/I never said “couldn’t,” we said “wouldn’t”: “No way Vlad *would* EVER do a hit with a thrown knife.” For someone concerned with my language you’re awfully loose with yours
As to the “absurd caveat,” why is Hermoine allowed to spend days preparing to fight a sexually-confused lefty but Vlad doesn’t get a day or two to assualt “Probably one of the two greatest living wizards”?! If not “absurd” how about “inconsistent,” “too convenient,” “biased,” or “bloody-hindering awkward?” One of those should work…
Mr. Brust has weighed in on this argument. I don’t think I could provide any better assessment of this bit of fantasy about Vlad’s chances against Dumbledore. No offense to Dumbledore — I still wouldn’t ever want to be cross purposes to a wizard of his stature — but I’d rather face him and the entire faculty of Hogwarts than be on Vlad’s “to do” list.
Only thing worse that being on Vlad’s ‘to do’ list is to be on his ‘to do with a Morganti weapon’ list.
The only way I can imagine people voting for Dumbledore on this is if they simply have no idea whatsoever who Vlad Taltos is.
This is an absolute no contest. Dumbledore would get creamed and wouldn’t even know what happened. Even if Vlad was transmogrified, I cannot see Godslayer being incapable of doing that…ffs it can store his soul and return him to life if he dies and it specializes in the destruction of magic.
So basically you have an assassin and brilliant swordsman armed with a soul eating weapon that protects him from all magic whilst simultaneously wearing a stone around his neck that further protects him from magic vs an old man who is very good at magic.
Essentially you have an assassin and brilliant swordsman fighting an old man in his pyjamas. Take magic out of the equation entirely, Dumbledore cannot throw anything at Vlad Taltos that would even work!
He’s not dead. He’s at Pigfarts. It’s been a closely-guarded secret for ages. It’s really a shame to let the cat out of the bag…
Really, though. An IMMUNE TO MAGIC assassin? and yes, he WOULD do his homework. But Dumbledore is so awesome in every way (i draw attention to BOOK DD, NOT movie), that he would win this battle. Only Snape can kill DD, and he didn’t really have a choice in the matter. The only reason that succeeded is because Dumbledore has had since around 1945 to build a relationship with Snape, from the guy’s school years through his adult life as a teacher. Dumbledore trusts him in the highest degree, and that is the only way he could ever be conned into a trap ending in his death. This haphazard and sudden confrontation is too easy for words.
And those Vlad is running from do this kinda of stuff for a living and have thousands of years of experience. Dumbledore had problems stopping a relative handful of amateurs; Vlad has managed to survive being hunted by, literally, an entire crime syndicate.
Dumbledore has experience in magical dueling, while Vlad has lived his whole life among a race that considers fighting a duel to the death to be a reasonable way to settle an argument; and by argument I mean it could be anything from the most brutal of insults to settling up a bar tab.
I’m sorry, but all I’m getting from this little thing is that:
a) Fanboyism on Dumbles behalf.
and
b) People are voting without knowing who Vlad Taltos is.
“Really, though. An IMMUNE TO MAGIC assassin?”
What is this, sarcasm? Yes, the character is immune to magic in two different ways. I don’t see how this shouldn’t be factored into the equation.
“and yes, he WOULD do his homework. But Dumbledore is so awesome in every way (i draw attention to BOOK DD, NOT movie), that he would win this battle.”
How is this even a valid argument? Can my rebuttle simply be “Vlad is so awesome in every way that he would in this battle”?
“Only Snape can kill DD,” – therefore DD is going to win every round of this cagematch because Snape isn’t involved?
“This haphazard and sudden confrontation is too easy for words.” I don’t even know why people are crying over whether or not Vlad had time to prepare in this fight when it has been noticed frequently throughout his books by Gods and wizards of a higher order than Dumbledore that his most useful skill is his ability to improvise. Plenty of Vlad’s stories involve his plans going awry, but him still coming out victorious due to his ability to adapt and improvise.
The logic on this is laughably simple. DD’s magic cannot work, and Vlad is the superior fighter. Not to mention that he carries a weapon that can pretty much return him to life even if he did somehow get killed; a weapon that he has used to kill creatures of a higher order than the gods of his world.
This is SUCH a hoot! Silliness has rarely been brought to such heights. Thank you all!
The “real” answer? Obviously, it depends on whose world we’re in–that is, which author’s assumptions we’re accepting.
But on the other hand, where’s the fun in that?
A battle between the author’s worlds? Sir, you’d win on the basis of having one of the most innovative and interesting fantasy worlds ever created, unless, of course, we were going on the popular vote, in which case JK Rowling would apparently wipe the floor with you.
Thank goodness we aren’t seeing people vote that Vlad would lose in a fight against Harry Potter, I couldn’t bear to see one of the weakest main characters ever concieved defeat such a well crafted and entertaining gent as Vlad.
Vlad. No contest whatsoever. Many have already mentioned the phoenix stones, a great weapons ability to ACTIVELY defend its bearer, and the whole one tiny cut and “D” is deader than dead thing. Vlad is constantly put out of his element and against horrible odds but comes out on top through cunning, tenacity, and sheer luck. He’s killed a Jenoine for crying out loud! You know those guys that even the gods and Sethra are scared of? He did what a gaggle of Gods, wizards, a dragon, and three other great-weapons couldn’t do. If you know anything about Vlad its that a wizard is truly the least of his worries. Even the physical attacks are doubtful since Morrolan and Aliera’s great-weapons have acted almost independently to defend them before from various attacks. Suck it up HP fans and admit defeat.
Vlad. No contest whatsoever. Many have already mentioned the phoenix stones, a great weapons ability to ACTIVELY defend its bearer, and the whole one tiny cut and “D” is deader than dead thing. Vlad is constantly put out of his element and against horrible odds but comes out on top through cunning, tenacity, and sheer luck. He’s killed a Jenoine for crying out loud! You know those guys that even the gods and Sethra are scared of? He did what a gaggle of Gods, wizards, a dragon, and three other great-weapons couldn’t do. If you know anything about Vlad its that a wizard is truly the least of his worries. Even the physical attacks are doubtful since Morrolan and Aliera’s great-weapons have acted almost independently to defend them before from various attacks. As far as the whole throwing knife thing, that’s just out of character. Vlad mentions many times that he would NEVER rely on a thrown weapon to be effective.
Suck it up HP fans and admit defeat.
Vlad. No contest whatsoever. Many have already mentioned the phoenix stones, a great weapons ability to ACTIVELY defend its bearer, and the whole one tiny cut and “D” is deader than dead thing. Vlad is constantly put out of his element and against horrible odds but comes out on top through cunning, tenacity, and sheer luck. He’s killed a Jenoine for crying out loud! You know those guys that even the gods and Sethra are scared of? He did what a gaggle of Gods, wizards, a dragon, and three other great-weapons couldn’t do. If you know anything about Vlad its that a wizard is truly the least of his worries. Even the physical attacks are doubtful since Morrolan and Aliera’s great-weapons have acted almost independently to defend them before from various attacks. As far as the whole throwing knife thing, that’s just out of character. Vlad mentions many times that he would NEVER rely on a thrown weapon to be effective.
Suck it up HP fans and admit defeat.
I like how, while Dumbledore is winning, all of the comments, or almost all of them, vote Vlad.
And I agree, at any given point it is very unlikely that Dumbledore will be able to hit Vlad with any kind of spell, short of dropping the cieling, which he wouldn’t do in his own castle. Also considering that Lady Teldra/Godslayer is Morganti, the slightest papercut given by the blade is a guaranteed one-hit KO, and not one he’s ever coming back from, Phoenix Tears or no. Sort of hard to do magic without a soul, I’d think.
Question. Is what Dumbledore uses considered sorcery or witchcraft. I think this may be important against Vlad’s defenses.
@Eric He wears the pheonix stone set in a black stone together as an amulet. With that amulet, he is protected from both sorcery and witchcraft.
Yeah okay.
Vlad doesnt just know sorcery he also knows witchcraft. And as long as hes connected to the Orb he cant die, (well for the most part).
They also totally forgot about Loiosh and SpellBreaker, and uhm Kragar.
So lets re-imagine the scenario as posted. Vlad would have researched studied and followed Dumbledore for weeks (maybe months). But for the sake of entertainment lets say it goes as posted.
That is until Fawkes flies off his roost, which wouldnt have happened. Vlad would have timed his attack to Fawkes rebirth as a chick, and not as a full fledged phoenix…but whatever.
Because before Fawkes could have even moved, Loiosh would have been all over him. But heck, I’ll even concede that point in DD’s favor. I’ll even give DD the ability for his spells to bypass SpellBreaker…and that Vlad didnt have any protection spells up (sorcerer or witchcraft).
The simple truth is; once DD froze or polymorphed Vlad, Kragar would have stepped out of the shadows and knifed DD in the back. Vlads first thought would have been “How long have you been here. I didnt notice you.” Which, by the way, would have also been Dumbledores last thoughts.
And Steven I dont think Hogwarts counts as DDs home, its his place of work. Best place to make the “hit” in my opinion. That and DD’s too predictable, and well he just not a killer.
Dammuth vs. Gandalf + Dumpledork + Raistlin + whoever u want to throw in
one vs three at the same time…
hands down: DAMMUTH
and if u dont know who Dammuth is, well…
so I’m just speculating here but wouldn’t vlad not use loiosh… In the book he used him for his first job than said he wouldn’t use him again cause everyone knew he was the one with the jhereg. although that’s only if were thinking of it as “work” and not a regular street fight type deal. but he would hands down win the fight anyway. and dumbledore would be using sorcery because witchcraft takes time to do and isn’t practical in a fight. people are probably voting dumbeldore because they’re little kids who cant understand the complex awesomeness of vlad taltos or have never heard of him which is also possible.