Comments on: Cage Match 2010, Round 1: 11) Dumbledore vs 22) Vlad Taltos

By: dpomerico

dpomerico — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 16:19:32 +0000

And that’s the end of that chapter!
Make sure to check out (and comment) on the next match with Dumbledore–this time versus Raistlin Majere:
http://wp.suvudu.com/2010/03/cage-match-2010-round-2-6-raistlin-majere-versus-11-albus-dumbledore.html

By: MWBL

MWBL — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 05:56:47 +0000

I can’t believe how swamped this battle was with logical arguments as to why Vlad should win, and yet he still lost. This is the first time anything has managed to raise my nerdrage since I was a teenager. LAME, people, lame.

By: Caine

Caine — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 22:49:39 +0000

Big ups to @Kordath.
While I enjoy mentally parsing through all the permeabilities regarding the magical attacks and defenses of both fictional universes, I can’t seriously entertain the notion that these two would ever actually come to blows. While I agree that Vlad’s powerful abilities, toys, and friends make him nearly the perfect tool for killing Dumbledore I think that the only possible way that would happen would be if the plot required it, as in the end of the HP series. Dumbledore has already shown that he will not kill his assassins, but instead will play upon whatever goodness they possess to turn them towards the side of right. And Vlad, for all his god-killing bad-assery, is essentially a good guy, deep down. Real deep down at times, to be sure.
I think the true winner here would be Loiosh, who would laugh himself to tears when he styles himself First Lieutenant of Dumbledore’s Army.
“Shut up, Loiosh.”

By: dudeness

dudeness — Sat, 13 Mar 2010 22:41:24 +0000

it depends on the universe the fight takes place in, as was said before.
dumbledore can and will apparate each time any attack goes anywhere near him. he can also read minds sort of, and is smart enough to realize direct attacks wont kill vlad. he will win no doubt in his own universe, with or without preperation.
in vlads universe you could argue that the mind reading wont work, that vlad is fast enough to kill him, that his magic is stronger etc.. I still think dumbledore should win though, but thats argueable.
People seam to dislike the HP series vs other fantasies, maybe because it had success with none-fantasy people aswell. but you have to admit that in his own universe, dumbledore is pretty much unbeatable.
and btw, he wasnt killed by voldemort, he sacrificed himself, which was part of his strategy.. if there’s a character out there that can convince him to do it again, that should be enough lol.. voldemort and dumbledore were both at a level of power which ment they pretty much couldnt be killed in a basic duel (unless you’re harry potter and the auther decided she wants a happy ending so she added some extra elements into the universe to make that possible), which is the exact problem of this duel. the best vlad fans could hope for is a draw, meaning nither of them can kill each other, but again it all depends on the universe..
anyways, lets channel this HP hate to something more usefull, like Twilight hate

By: Keino

Keino — Sat, 13 Mar 2010 21:56:16 +0000

Um, Godslayer, formerly spellbreaker, captures any spell. I think that would effectively eliminate Dumbledore’s chances of winning.

By: Billy Ann

Billy Ann — Sat, 13 Mar 2010 08:46:12 +0000

Wow, these Hogwarts characters are pests. It’s a Dumbledore (alone) vs. Vlad (alone). I do think, that if they were genuinely alone (no bird, no Loiosh), Vlad would win. All he needs to do is shoot the wizard’s hand, so he could drop his wand (I mean, isn’t it pathetic, that all his great ability can only be used with a stick of wood?, and then it’s all over. Teh end.

By: scholarinexile

scholarinexile — Sat, 13 Mar 2010 00:28:06 +0000

Bear in mind that Dumbledore is a brilliant man, and will quickly catch on to the fact that his enemy is immune to direct magical attack. He’s proven he can Apparate his way out of harm as it comes at him on several occasions, and can become invisible without a cloak, so dodging the sword isn’t a big deal. And even if he can’t directly target Vlad…what about the ceiling over his head? The floor under his feet? Can Vlad survive in a roomful of fire that Dumbledore can simply vanish from after he ignites it? Any wizard who lasted as long as Dumbledore did- remember, he only died when he LET Snape kill him- is going to go to indirect tactics very quickly in this situation, and in that case my money is on the guy who can turn the battlefield against you and simply not be there when you go to attack him.

By: James

James — Fri, 12 Mar 2010 23:15:41 +0000

I will not reiterate most of the discrepancies in the example scenario except to say the following:
a) if Dumbledore gets to use Faux, then Vlad gets to use Loiosh (fair is fair).
b) I don’t understand why , “there really wasn’t time for [Vlad] to do his normal ‘stake-out-the-mark’ routine. He was thrown into this pretty much blind,” when the first line of Hermione vs. Jamie says, “Hermione had prepped even harder for this battle than she had for her O.W.L.s, and in much the same fashion—by hitting the library.” It seems to me if Hermione had time to prep…
I also disagree that we should even remotely consider Vlad’s friends as part of the equation. Albus Dumbledore also has a slew of friends that care about him very much, and would be there in an instant to help the headmaster out in any fight. Let’s keep it mano-e-mano (plus familiars, of course).
That all being said and other things being equal: Dumbledore gets his wand, Vlad gets Lady Teldra (Godslayer), and they each get the things they would normally have on them at the time. I think this would be a hard fought battle, with both sides pulling a few surprises. However, in the end, the contest would go to Vlad Taltos. It is simply a fact of the match-up; Vlad is set up to defeat wizards, sorcerers, and users of magic.
In fact I think that Vlad could probably win against any of the wizards and sorcerers and even a couple of the gods (um, Godslayer…) in this tournament. Now, throw him into the ring with an extremely good fighter who doesn’t use magic, or even a moderate fighter with cool technology (like guns) on their side (or even Arthur Dent: hard to kill), then Vlad may have met his match. I do not think Vlad could win the tourney, but he should have made a better run than he will get credit for.
Thanks for the fun, I really enjoy the site.

By: bd

bd — Fri, 12 Mar 2010 21:13:09 +0000

“No matter how subtle the wizard ….”
(… a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style.)
Issues the overview has forgotten:

Vlad has the support of three of the world’s greatest wizards.
Those three great wizards also have Great Weapons, named Blackwand, Pathfinder, and Iceflame.
Additionally, Vlad has a Great Weapon called Nightslayer, carried by Zungaron, on his side.
Kiera the Thief could easily steal the stuffed unicorn.
Aliera e’Kieron could easily heal Vlad.
If Aliera failed, Daymar could probably pull it off.
If all else fails, Vlad is also friends with the Necromancer, who is more skilled in sorcerous arts than the Lords of Judgment who dispatched her.
Dumbledore is 128 years old? Sethra Lavode is over 250,000. And she’s already dead.
There is no way Vlad would not know about Fawkes. Loiosh would probably eat the Phoenix. Or else they would simply capture him and present him to the Empress Zerika IV as a gift.
With the help of Morrolan e’Drien and the Necromancer, Vlad could easily arrive at Hogwarts, dissolve the school into a sea of chaos, and return to his own world.

Lastly, the pretense that Dumbledore would even see Vlad coming is questionable. The scenario proposed suggests that Vlad would break most, if not all of his rules about being a successful assassin. I can’t figure what evil Dumbledore would have to commit to compel that course of action.

By: Dan Abraham

Dan Abraham — Fri, 12 Mar 2010 20:25:35 +0000

Sigh. This is a classic “plotter vs. power” matchup, just like Superman vs. Batman.
Batman, given time to prepare, wins.
Still, I’m minded to follow Peter David’s rule. You want to know if the Hulk is stronger than Superman? Whose book is it? ‘Cause if the title font is big and green, I know where to put my money.
On gut instinct, though, come on! Vlad was _made_ to kill wizards. He’s immune to magic in two different ways, and he _always_ escapes. Dumbledore let himself get killed by a freakin’ potion.