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Image courtesy of Michael Whelan |
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Kills
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Kills
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The man in white flees across the desert and the gunslinger follows.
Gandalf the White spurs his beautiful alabaster steed Shadowfax onward, glancing behind him at the figure on the horizon, dismayed that the distance between the two isn’t growing but decreasing. A piercing noise fills the air, causing Shadowfax to rear up, toss his rider, and bolt for the horizon.
“A thinny,” Roland thinks to himself. “Good Sai, what have you gotten us into?” Rusher slows down as Roland leaps from horseback, landing on his feet about twenty meters from his target. “What have you done with the boy?” he calls out to the wizard. “Did you use your foul magics to make Jake disappear?”
“Do not take me for some conjurer of cheap tricks!” shouts Gandalf as he thrusts his staff forward. An invisible fist of energy slams into the gunslinger’s chest, knocking him backwards into a rock. Roland feels the warmth of blood as it drips out of the open wound on the back of his head. He coughs and spits more blood on the dusty ground. This is not good.
The action of his being thrown causes a cloud of dust to rise up around Roland, convenient as it hides the gunslinger as he reaches for his revolvers. Feeling the sandalwood grips of his forefathers’ guns, time slows to a crawl as the weapons are raised, straight and true. The sound of a gunshot momentarily drowns out the incessant droning of the thinny as Gandalf staggers backward.
“What new devilry is this?” the bearded wizard wonders aloud as the blood begins to spread on his white robe. Two more shots ring out across the dusty plain as Gandalf collapses in a billowing pile of white and red.
The thinny drones on and on, filling the air with an uncomfortable vibration. There are no more songs, no more returns for Gandalf; only the image of the green shores of Aman–the Undying Lands of the gods await him now.
Predicted Winner: Roland Deschain of Gilead
(Gandalf is a character from J.R.R. Tolkien’s The Lord of the Rings; Roland Deschain is a character from Stephen King’s The Dark Tower series.)
I figure there is no way Roland wins this one, still pulling for him. LOTR is a good series, but Roland is a BA. I think it would be sweet if he used his hypnotize trick on someone. Probably never work on Gandalf though, to smart.
Honestly, I’m mostly pulling for Gandalf because I’m hoping that the next round consists of a no-holds-barred, Jesus-figure vs. Jesus-figure grudge match between Gandalf and Aslan.
Gandalf never really does anything, all in all he’s pretty unimpressive as far as wizards go. However, wizards in Stephen King’s universe(s) are about the same (lots of impressive sounding talk, but not much magic). Magic-wise Roland and Gandalf are on about the same level (not in terms of using magic, but in how it works in both their universes). Likely, Gandalf would use Flagg’s trick of preventing Roland’s guns from shooting (force blasts aren’t really his style – too direct). Then Roland (provided he didn’t have an other-worldly gun on hand) would draw his big knife and meet Gandalf’s sword. Gandalf doesn’t go much for setting people on fire, but he’s not above blinding flashes of light, and he’s good with a sword – so I can see him taking Roland in a Sword vs. Knife fight without too much trouble (but also not without wounds, Roland would freaking catch the sword in his bare hands if it meant a chance to bury his knife in Gandalf). Either way, whoever walks away from this one is going to be a bloody mess.
Honestly guys, you just put those two in the same division, so that you could write that “man in white” sentence, right?
Interesting one.
Can Gandalf cope with bullets? Of course he could, but to counter a gun, he would have to know what it is. Then again, he was always better at reading minds than at actual fighting in the books. On the other hand again, he is just too good and honest to attack first. He’s so totally not made for these kind of contests anyway.
I stick with your prediction. The “too good for this world guy” loses.
Anyone who can take down a Balrog shouldn’t have trouble with old Roland.
Why doesn’t Gandalf just cast disintegrate and turn Roland into a pile of dust? I hear that’s all the rage in caster vs. weapon based fighters these days.
Really this whole contest should come down to the god/demi-gods: Aslan, Gandalf, and the winnner – Cthulhu.
Ranged Magic vs guns. With Gandalf and his unlimited rezzes. If all that it took to kill Gandalf was some bullets then his giant fall with a flaming Balrog would have killed him. The guy fell a mile with a flaming demon then fought it for 3 days straight before killing it. I don’t think bullets are worth much here.
C’mon, Roland already got past Elric. Who was a much more powerful entity then Gandalf. If we’re going to keep up the assumption that bullets defeat wizards, then until the Gunslinger faces something immune to them he wins. As stated, he defeated Elric, because you know, none of these wizards would EVER have a spell up to project against projectiles. That would be silly…So let’s keep up the cowboy wins farce and vote him on.
My initial reaction… Gandalf wins. Gandalf is not just a wizard. Gandalf is one of the fricking Maiar. His passivity in LotR is because that’s his job: to (quoting wikipedia) “guide elves and men by gaining trust and spreading knowledge, not by ruling them with fear and force.” He has a keen understanding of how corrupting power can be, so in the fight against Sauron he was careful to exercise his as little as possible. In this fight he has no such restrictions, so I don’t think arguments relying on Gandalf’s style really work here. My vote goes to Gandalf.
That said, there are a few points that make me think Roland has some chance:
1. He’s not a “cowboy”, as Bloodbeasst put it. He’s a gunslinger. He has inhuman reflexes and aim, most apparent in The Gunslinger (before he loses a hand), but still decidedly present afterward.
2. He’s got fate (the Beam, Ka, whatever you want to call it) on his side, in a pyrrhic sort of way. He’s essentially cursed to live on as those around him die. By itself this would be a cheaply unbeatable argument, but given a fight that could hypothetically be almost close, I think it’s fair to conjecture that it may tip things in his favor.
3. He’s got a pretty good history of not getting killed by wizards, albeit not so great a history of ever killing them.
Still going with Gandalf, just giving my complete thoughts…
Come on, there can only be one winner: Roland! He crosses deserts, beaches, Midworld, the Calla and I don’t know what else. He bested the Crimson King (not a stranger to magic and far more powerful than Gandalf) and Walter and Flagg and everyone else. He alone killed more people than Gandalf can imagine.
How can you possibly think that an old man at the end of his life can defeat the fastest Gunslinger ever?
I admit, I’m a huge Tolkien and LOTR fan, but against Roland, he doesn’t stand a chance!
OK its obvious Gnadalf is going to win because everyone has seen the LOTR films. Roland SHould win because he is amazing and has as demokritos said, he has a long history of coming out better against wizards. Also if Gandalf gets through, thats pretty much an all gods vs wizards left. Give the average (ish) man a chance!!!
Roland Deschain out-cools Gandalf the Off-White six ways to Sunday.
Regardless of the outcome.
Hey, wizard! Welcome to gunfire…
The problem is that Roland didn’t actually kill ANY of those beings. Mordred got Flagg (who was also apparently Walter), the Artist (cant remember his name) took out the Crimson King. The only thing that seems to keep Flagg/Crimson King from magic-nuking Roland is that fate will not allow it. However, Flagg demonstrates the ability to completely nullify Roland’s guns, and generally messes with Roland at every opportunity. The Crimson King is essentially powerless due to his situation, but even still Roland cannot himself defeat him.
That, and Gandalf isn’t human, the “he’s old” argument doesn’t as he’s already hundreds of years old by the start of the hobbit.
Demokritos also makes a good point about the reasons behind his actions in Middle Earth. If Gandalf were not to limit himself Roland wouldn’t stand a chance. (Remember, Gandalf is the same sort of spirit as Sauron, though not as powerful he is still FAR more than a mortal man)
i couldn’t find specific conditions for these “cage matches” (i think that’s not really the point?), but i’m not considering killing the opponent to be a requirement for winning.
considering that, i voted for the underdog, roland. i agree that roland would have an element of surprise. and just as importantly, roland would would not be surprised. roland knows to be careful around wizards. and gandalf will have a spell ready to protect him from arrows and crossbow bolts. unfortunately . . .
From the movie, Gandalf has the ability to deflect missile attacks (when Legolas, who has to be nearly as fast as Roland, fires an arrow at him). He can also do a “heat metal” thing on Roland’s guns, forcing him to drop them. Further, he can blind Roland with a flash of light. So, Roland, since he is insanely fast, manages to get off a couple of shots, but Gandalf blocks them, and then clocks Roland with his staff a few times. Gandalf can be beaten, and may have some serious trouble with Rand, but not this round.
Who writes these things? I realize it’s all ‘fantasy’ and it’s stupid to mix universes to begin with… but seriously, a prediction that Roland wins? I just wish I had some of whatever the person who wrote this is smoking…
It’s true Gandalf is old…like all of the Maiar, he’s older than the world itself and entered the world along with the Valar after its creation. He’s so many thousands of years old, he comes from a time before there was even a day and a night. His physical appearance as an old man is just a kind of mortal disguise, nothing more. He could have come in any number of forms, but he’s been in that form since the day he set foot in Middle Earth many thousands of years before the time of the Lord of the Rings. Slay his physical form and his spirit simply flies West to the Undying Lands, and should his great tasks not yet be completed, it’s likely he will merely be sent back in a new form, perhaps without any of the restrictions on showing his power his original form had.
The photo of him here is as Gandalf The White, revealed in all of his power, yet even as Gandalf The Gray, he was able to defeat the Balrog (also a Maiar, but in a demonic form). Calling Gandalf just a “wizard” is to misunderstand what he is. He’s more akin to an powerful angel or a lesser god (where as the Valar are something like a cross between arch-angels and greater gods).
Wow! Some of you people actually made it all the way through The Silmarillion??
You’re made of sterner stuff than me… that thing read like the “begatting” section of the bible.
Die Maiar, die.
You know what occured to me when I read the prediction for this match? The people that work at suvudu are really, really good at picking losers. In fact, I hereby bet that they are wrong more than right overall in this bracket.
As for Roland and Gandalf….
Ten-to-one says Gandalf eats a bullet or two….and keeps on coming. You can’t put a good Wizard down with lead. Bottom line. Sorry Roland, I thought you could beat the whiny, emo Elric- but this foe is beyond any of you!!
When Gandalf meets Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli in Fangorn Forest for the first time after becoming “the White” not only does he neutralize them handily, he states that “Indeed my friends, none of you has any weapon that could hurt me.” This to a man who is wielding a magic sword. Regardless of how fast the Gunslinger is, a bullet just isn’t going be effective. I think the key to combating a maiar in a man suit is to have enough spiritual/supernatural power to affect the body AND soul. Does the Gunslinger have that?
I would just like to point out that Roland has a gun made of Excalibur. And he never misses. WHAT PART OF EXCALIBUR GUN WITH MAGIC BULLETS ARE YOU GUYS NOT GETTING?
Also, Roland is the central and nearly god-like figure in the Tower, as it’s him who starts everythi–… Er. The ending. I’m not going to spoiler it just in case.
Lossimur, good job looking up that quote – that seals it for me. Now, how will Gandalf handle Rand?
I don’t remember Gandalf ever being so much as wounded throughout the Lord of The Rings, aside from the Balrog. (he survived falling from the bridge, certainly an impressive feat in itself) I seem to remember that both were fire Maia, the only difference being that the Balrog a corrupted form, while Gandalf is a loyal Maia. The question is not so much ‘can Roland handle a wizard?’ as ‘can Roland handle a Balrog in human form?’
Okay, first off, Roland is a part of my favorite book series, ever.
Still, even in my fanboy-ism, I could not in good conscious vote for him in this fight.
While I may be completely burnt out on LotR, and sick of it’s group of followers, I still have to give credit where credit is due. Gandalf would very likely take down Roland, and probably without too much effort. =/
(It made me cringe to even type that previous sentence.)
Even IF Roland was powerful enough to take down Gandalf, the legions of Tolkien followers hhuuuuggggeeellllyyyy outnumber us “Tower-Junkies”, and wouldn’t allow it to be so.
I don’t remember Gandalf ever being so much as wounded throughout the Lord of The Rings, aside from the Balrog. (he survived falling from the bridge, certainly an impressive feat in itself) I seem to remember that both were fire Maia, the only difference being that the Balrog a corrupted form, while Gandalf is a loyal Maia. The question is not so much ‘can Roland handle a wizard?’ as ‘can Roland handle a Balrog in human form?’
Gandalf doesn’t Do ranged magic – on the command of ‘draw’, he’d draw a powerful (but non-souleating) sword…and succumb to an Indiana Jones moment without a nice soft extinguished Balrog to land on. Unless he’s packing fireworks, he’s toast.
Well, I love them both.
Books, I mean.
Half-handed Roland would take down Aragorn and make him a pretty corpse without breaking the sweat.
But I really don’t think he could do anything to Gandalf.
Like, anything.
He probably wouldn’t be able even raise his hand to the gun.
So sad
Shadowfax would “bolt for the horizon”? *snorts* This is no ordinary horse we’re talking about here.
Let’s continue this popularity contest. I think this match, confronted to the Elric one, is the best proof that there isn’t any meaning in the vote system*.
Gandalf and Elric are being in the same level of power. I would have still voted Elric: in the Third Age magic is fading in the Middle Earth, even an Istari power isn’t that amazing anymore.
But people voting for Gandalf and against Elric against the same opponent, show that they are just voting according to which book they have read.
* yes, probably a proof wasn’t really needed
Roland supporters are forgetting a critical detail about Gandalf – almost everything about him (his ring, his magic, and by extension, his fireworks) is based in FIRE. And guess what guns make use of? No matter how fast Roland draws, and no matter how fast a bullet flies, Gandalf has ultimate control of the situation.
Tough choice here as I love both series and both characters. Roland beats Gandalf in speed, cold-bloddedness, clint-eastwoodness, and badassness in general, but I honestly can’t see the gunslinger getting out of this fight. Roland is ‘protected’ in the Dark Tower series by his integral role in all existence. Outside that universe he’s just another dude with gun. Gandalf, as has been pointed out, can nullify regular weapons and even those infused with magical powers (as Roland’s guns seem to be). I see Gandalf winning not to live himself but to relive the gunslinger of his burden.
Roland’s great, but he’s up against Gandalf, people. GANDALF.
That is all.
I can understand people voting for Gandalf to me its a close fight even though i would stil go for Roland. But everyone who talks about Gandalf doing all the moves he used in the film is useless because he is against a gun! not an arrow or a sword! GUN
this is an interesting match and while I think that undoubtedly gandalf is more powerful, I have two questions that come to my mind. one,would gandalf be able to understand a where the threat was coming from and react fast enough stop him. two, would gandalf be able to survive a bullet to the head.
almost undoubtedly roland would take the initiative in this match, and that alone could potentially be enough for him to win this match.
I think the arguments about gandalf’s morals or style are valid, even if in middle earth he may be held to underlying restrictions that may not apply elsewhere he would still have a strong sense of morality, further we can only assume roland would meet gandalf in middle earth given the nature of his story. in fact you could even take arguments about gandalf returning in different forms to complete his tasks against him. say that roland has already long since visited middle earth upon some ancient form of gandalf and went on with his quest. while gandalf went on to be born and do so many important things.
roland would have the jump on him and present a threat gandalf has no reason to yet understand in it’s fastest and most lethal form being such an amazing shot. a bullet through gandalfs brain would end the fight if not gandalf’s immortal spirit. a later form of gandalf would never seek vengeance upon roland and that would leave roland as the winner.
that’s my choice, I do so with some degree of uncertainty.
If bullets always beat magic, Roland wins.
But bullets, like Gods, are boring…
Ok I’ve read LOTR about 9 times over the years (not to mention The Simarillion and the Unfinished tales twice)and The Dark Tower 3 times now. I feel i’m in a pretty good place to make an unbiased call here and it’s gotta be Roland. For those of you who are nay saying Roland have you read the books? Please. Gandalf is old and done and it doesnt matter what Roland is thrown against Ka finds some tool to put in his hand to win the day. Gandalf? He’s the most overrated character in ALL of fantasy.
I think that everyone who says that Gandalf is immortal is forgetting that he did actually die at the end of the fight against the Balrog. He didn’t bring himself back to life but was brought back to life by the Valar. His kind can die (See Sauron, they are among the same group, Maiar) just as well as any elf who is also ‘immortal.’
And yes, Marbo is right, anyone who has read both would probably agree that Roland would win if only for is Ka which means that he reaches the Dark Tower no matter what stands in his way.
Bullets, in my view, do not always beat magic, especially in the case of a (nominally human manifestation of a being that existed before time) magic user that has clearly demonstrated the ability to stop surprise missile attacks (see above). Given his speed and Ka, Roland does get off a couple of shots before Gandalf melts his guns in his hands, Excalibur lineage notwithstanding. None of them hit, because Gandalf can deflect a reasonable number of missile attacks. Gandalf against an attack helicopter firing 1,000+ rounds/minute, I’m not so sure, but even as fast as Roland is, there is no way that he gets off more than 8 shots. In any case, it doesn’t matter, as Lossimur nailed this several posts ago: “None of you have any weapon that can hurt me”. That’s from the book, not the movie. Gandalf is unassailable by purely physical means. Doesn’t mean he can’t be beaten, not at all, but does mean that he wins this round.
What is happening with the votes this evening? Three of the four contests have changed dramatically in the past several hours. Shrike is now blowing Drizzt away, Rand has significantly extended his lead, and Gandalf vs. Roland has suddenly become close, after being a blowout for Gandalf. What is going on?
I was just thinking the same thing.
This one got CLOSE. At 5pm, last time I was here, Gandalf had his good lead…I come back 12 hours later, and it’s a 1% match now.
My inner fanboy is still rooting for Roland, but I stand by my decision to vote for Gandalf winning this fight.
SigTau,
Am I just being paranoid, or are these changes actually weird? Are there really enough people in the world that both know about this contest, and care enough about the Shrike to give it 6,000 votes in a matter of hours? Total reversal of trends, I’m not feeling trusting in the absence of additional data. Gandalf vs. Roland I can see getting closer, albeit not this quickly, but the Shrike counts are what really bother me, even though I voted for the killing machine. I would like some evidence that this is not a hack.
Oh, I’m in total agreement. Definitely odd. Two comebacks(One crazy-huge) within 12 hours?
Don’t get me wrong, it’s definitely possible, especially if fans went into their respective forums and “rallied the troops”, but even with that happening, I wouldn’t expect this great a change so soon…more like a gradual increase over the next few days.
I guess we’ll have to wait and see what the PTB(Powers That Be) have to say on the matter, if anything at all.
SigTau, we shall have to see indeed. Ged/Aragorn matchup seems unaffected, Rand/Conan bracket got significantly more one-sided, but that is not nearly as unusual as the two that we’ve already noted. I hear you about rallying the troops, but observe that it is should be way too early for that, given that these contests continue until 3/19. Let’s see what the suvudu people say tomorrow. Perhaps its all a legit voting surge, I can’t say without better evidence.
Oh…. WHAT????? Are you serious. Gandalf defeated a BALROG fer cryin’ out loud… What’s a mortal with a six-gun compared to a balrog??? And what happened to Gandalf’s nearly 50% lead here? Sure Roland ought to fare somewhat better in this match, but something smells awfully fishy here and it ain’t Gollum’s feet.
Hooray for late-night rallys!
Step away from the crack pipe, Morbo. I’ve read both of the series too. Roland is a mere byproduct of King’s lesser productive days as a horror writer. He ripped off Tolkien’s work in many ways (not to mention others). He should stick to what he knows best.
Gandalf wins easily.
Step away from the crack pipe, Morbo. I’ve read both of the series too. Roland is a mere byproduct of King’s lesser productive days as a horror writer. He ripped off Tolkien’s work in many ways(not to mention others). He should stick to what he knows best.
Gandalf wins easily.
Even broken, Roland can still fight. He’s survived long enough against many different foes.
Although I don’t think he’s ever battled anyone like Gandalf.
Roland wouldn’t go for the torso. He’s better than that. He’d double tap in the head. Simple and efficient. Gandalf has never come up against a pistol/revolver. Admittedly the crossbow and bow are similar, but not nearly as good as shooting a projectile at such speed as Roland’s guns.
Roland does not win hands down. But he can, and does, win.