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As Kvothe sat on the rock, he couldn’t help think that, aside from the Rooster from Disney’s Robin Hood*, there probably wasn’t a cooler lute player in all of existence.
That made him smile.
Across the field, a figure in blue robes was leaning against a large oak tree, apparently stretching out his Achilles tendons.
It would appear I’m not up against a fool, Kvothe thought. But that didn’t surprise him. It wasn’t as if he’d been up against pushovers in the past two rounds. Granted, he destroyed Garet Jax while cleaning out some mugs–and he’d beaten God by hugging him into submission–but they were still worthy opponents.
Just not powerful enough to deal with the power–or the curse–that he contained.
Strumming his lute for a few more chords, he realized that he had better get this over with. Across the way, the man in blue robes was now waving his hands rather crazily, and Kvothe was pretty sure he was pointing a stick at him and shouting. But Kvothe was lost in the sweet melodies, and had no idea what–if anything–the man with the long beard was saying.
Sighing, he slung the instrument over his shoulder and stood up. Digging into his pocket, he pulled out a piece of parchment. On it were five words:
Why do they always make this so easy?
The figure started walking towards him, and Kvothe raised his hand in greeting (no harm in being polite if I’m going to name him out of existence)… and nothing came out of his mouth.
Wha…?
“Hello, young Master Kvothe! Glorious day, isn’t it?”
Kvothe pointed at his mouth, desperately trying to speak.
“Loved that song you were playing,” the wizard said. “You’re quite talented. Reminds me of the time I did karaoke with this ogress while backpacking through the Continent after my post-graduate studies. Beautiful voice, that girl, we did such a great rendition of ‘I’ve Got You, Babe’…”
Kvothe just stared at the wizard, eyes wide in fear… and confusion.
“Ah, but never mind that. You’re probably more interested in why you can’t sing anymore.” He held up his wand. “Little thing called a ‘Silencio‘ spell. Didn’t want you just saying my name and making me ‘Poof!‘ No real sport in that, now is there?”
Kvothe just stared, especially as the man in blue robes held out his hand as if he wanted to shake.
“Albus Dumbledore–but I’m guessing you already knew that, didn’t you?” He chuckled. “You really are a clever one. Probably would have done pretty well on your O.W.L.S. if you had attended my school.”
Owls? I don’t even want to know what this guy thinks I would do to owls.
“In all that research, though, did you ever figure out how a bumbling old fool like myself lived to be one-hundred and twenty-eight years old?”
Kvothe shook his head, glancing left and right to see if there was any chance of escape. But, as Kvothe had thought, Dumbledore was no fool.
“Petrificus Totalus!” Kvothe tightened up, unable to move until Dumbledore stuck his wand into his chest and pushed him over. He crashed to the ground. Dumbledore knelt down beside him, his old man’s breath washing over Kvothe’s face, heavy with pumpkin juice.
For the first time in these matches, Kvothe felt fear.
“I said, do you want to know how I lasted this long?” Dumbledore smiled, the absent-minded professor look plastered to his face while his blue eyes sparkled–but not mischievously.
Homicidally.
“By eating the hearts of punks who got in my way.”
And without another word, Dumbledore formed his hand into the shape of a claw and, chanting Kali Ma!** over and over, pulled Kvothe’s beating heart from his chest.
Mouth full of blood, Dumbledore couldn’t help think that this would be the best Bertie Botts flavor.
###
Predicted Winner: Albus Dumbledore
(Albus Dumbledore is a character from JK Rowling’s Harry Potter series; Kvothe is a character from Patrick Rothfuss’s novel The Name of the Wind)
Watch the video recap for the Round 2 matches featuring these characters!
Am I the only one here who bought the Name of the Wind expecting it to be a great book and was disappointed? I’m prepared to reserve judgement on the full series but so far Kvothe is more irritating to me than impressive. He’s too good to be true – he has this fantastic learning ability which enables him to easily (yes, easily) best people who have spent their whole lives struggling to master particular subjects (take his fiddle-playing as one example among many, which to him is barely worth a thought more than a way to earn those few extra coins he needs) but he’s such a goody two-shoes that he spends all his time grounded, because otherwise he couldn’t be a people’s hero could he? I mean, woe betide that he develop any sort of arrogance or sense of entitlement for his having super powers.
I didn’t adore the Harry Potter books either, but since this is a cage match, Dumbledore was to me one of the highlights of the series and seems a more natural winner of this contest. He gets my vote.
“manipulating himself? is that like masturbating?”
I lold hard.
Seriously, good humor there.
It’ll be kind of hard for Kvothe to lose against a dead guy.
(rolls eyes) Not really. Kvothe is currently in an indeterminate quantum state of book unfinishedness. He gets disqualified. Dead Dumbledore wins.
“Kvothe is currently in an indeterminate quantum state of book unfinishedness. He gets disqualified.”
Firstly the book is finished it’s the series that isn’t. But even if you were to replace the word ‘book’ in your statement it still would be void as if you read above it states “Kvothe is a character from Patrick Rothfuss’s novel The Name of the Wind.” It does not mention the unfinished series just the one book.
Also if you meant to say story instead of book you could argue that Kvothe has a finished story in “Road to Levinshir”. Any way you look at the statement it is void.
@beastly
I fully disagree with you here, and found TNOTW to be an extremely good read. The world was well constructed, the magic felt well-integrated, I really connected well with all the characters who each felt real and fleshed out. The writing was also very tight, and I didn’t feel like any sections dragged or felt out of place.
While Kvothe is a child prodigy, I disagree that he is anywhere near as unrealistic as you’re making him out to be. Such incredibly talented children quite often do exist in the real world, and many of them are driven by catastrophic personal tragedy (like the loss of both of ones parents) to quite extraordinary achievements. I would be curious to know how you felt about Ender’s Game, which has an equally spectacularly intelligent and talented protagonist.
There was also nothing preposterous about his musical gift. Kvothe spent the first 12 years of his life in the constant company of artistic and musical geniuses, meaning that he would have had excellent teaching and coaching from a very young age. He also spent what, a year? of his life after his parents died doing absolutely nothing but eating and playing his lute. To say that such singleminded dedication to an instrument wouldn’t pay off after years of practice is in my opinion a much more unrealistic proposition than to say that Kvothe’s level of expertise is impossible.
That being said I’m inclined to give my vote to Kvothe. Partially, this is because I much prefer Kvothe to what an above poster very aptly described as a tired and cliched wizard stereotype. Kvothe also gets the benefit of some assumptions you have to make in order for this to be an even moderately academic exercise.
For example, how much to characters know about each other? In whose world are the battles taking place? Is it an arena match, is preparation allowed, what sorts of environmental factors should be considered?
My assumption is that the battles take place in a neutral world where everybody’s magic systems are available. Characters are also taken from their most cinematic power level in the story. For instance, nobody would argue that we should take book-1-chapter-1 Rand Al’Thor for the cage match, we are obviously taking him at the end of the most recent book.
The problem with Kvothe is that this “most cinematic” version has not been described in any detail, nor featured so far in Rothfuss’ books. The narrator Kvothe is a tired and rusty innkeeper (note a tired rusty innkeeper capable of fucking up 5 demons with a bat and a blacksmith’s vest). The only other Kvothe is an un-tested child (note a child capable of killing a fucking dragon).
So where does this leave us? I would argue that we should take the midpoint Kvothe that will likely be in the second and third books. This is the Kvothe whose story Chronicler is interested in. The Kingkiller, the master wizard, the master namer and sympathetic mage.
If we’re allowing preparation, remember too that he has learned a great deal of other science and magic at the University. For instance, he would likely use his alchemy to create some sort of explosive grenades. He may also be able to get access to some of dumbledore’s hair or blood to make a mommet with. Also Kvothe is a master swordsmen, and we only have the tiniest knowledge as to the extent and power of his naming magic.
Also note in the writeup above that Dumbledore essentially gets the drop on Kvothe, silencing him before he can do anything. What if it were the other way around? Could Kvothe slay dumbledore simply through knowledge of his true name? Kvothe could also manage to kill Dumbledore with a combination of feints and tricks. He could also disguise himself as harry potter using his stagecraft skills with makeup and disguise.
In short? Kvothe is a far more fully-rounded character, with a wider and more interesting bag of tricks. He also has the element of myster about his powers, since we have not discovered them all yet. Dumbledore on the other hand is a beefed up stock character, the seemingly batty senile old wizard master, with none of the depth and complexity of Kvothe. Given this, I argue that on balance Kvothe would win out in more scenarios due to his broader range of talents. You may feel that this is a subjective argument, but you can’t have any true objective contest between two imaginary characters without setting down a better set of ground rules, and having Rothfuss spell out the full extent of Kvothe’s abilities. Since I like him more, I’m willing to give Kvothe’s abilities the benefit of the doubt.
Also Rothfuss >> Rowling any day.
Rooting for a Kvothe vs Rand final.
(It’s a lute, not a fiddle. That’s like saying Dumbledore fights with his dick instead of his wand.)
To reply to CezeN/Jimmer: I believe the binding works in the following way: Kvothe splits his mind into two pieces, one half believing that the two airs are the same, and the other believing that they aren’t. Then, he mutters a binding (although I’m not completely sure if speech is necessary, like silent spells in HP). The two airs are thus bound. When Dumbledore tries to breath, his diaphragm has to push the weight of both airs, because Kvothe has bound them.
Don’t say that “it might not work on Dumbledore” because you could say that anything might not work on anyone because everyone is from a different universe. Naming isn’t really a fickle thing; if you know naming, it works because everything responds to its true name. That’s just the nature of naming. It can’t be resisted. If naming doesn’t work, nothing works.
I think that’s right, but I’m not exactly an expert on NOTW. If someone could verify that, it would be wonderful.
I agree that the mommet idea is just silly and would not work.
I think both arguments are valid and both contenders are sound wizards, but I have to go with Kvothe on this simply because he has other ways to fight. They may have different but close-to-equal magical styles, but Kvothe has his swordplay to fall back on. My vote to Kvothe.
i dont think its a popularity contest because if it was that it would just be a pole. this is a bracket so there is some battle involved. it may end up being a popularity contest, but i think some objetcive people will really look at the fighting part and decide which chracter wins with that.
Kvothe would win. What dpomerico seems to neglect, in his excellent description, is that Kvothe would not stand like a deer in headlights because he is dumbfounded by being silent. He is just as wise as Dumbledore and would react in a matter better suited to someone who managed to talk his way into a prestigious university.
Let us not forget that cognitive skills do not get taken away with vocal.
There’s also a narrative element I think. Part of the reason I think that Jaime Lannister won out over Cthulu is that Jaime *IS* the underdog up against an ancient evil elder god. However that’s what fantasy stories are all about, and were the story written of COURSE Jaime would win. That’s like saying “Who would win in a fight, David or Goliath?”
This is why I think that Kvothe would beat Dumbledore. While it’s hard to objectively compare the abilities of the two (especially since we don’t know the full extent of Kvothe’s), due simply to the complexity and ingenuity that Kvothe’s character has been imbued with it’s easier to imagine him coming out on-top in a fight than the bumbling collection of fairy-tale stereotypes he’s up against.
(rolls eyes even more) Yes, you’re right. I was trying to draw attention to the absurdity of Devin implying that Dumbledore would be dead in the cage match. We don’t really need to argue that, do we?
Ok, I think I got the message, you liked TNOTW. Me, not quite so much – just my personal opinion and I think I’m in the minority, hence my question: “Am I the only one here” etc.
I don’t agree at all with your assessment of the book but an argument about it would be out of place. I didn’t come to trash it. It’s obviously very popular.
To cherry-pick some other points:
- I did like Ender’s Game a lot.
- I didn’t say that Kvothe’s music expertise was impossible, and I didn’t miss that there was certainly the groundwork in the book to make it reasonable for him to be a musical prodigy. But for me, Kvothe is too much the prodigy of everything. Again, my opinion.
Don’t know why, but I remember it as a fiddle – if you say it’s a lute, I believe you. Wasn’t trying to be facetious.
That comment before last was meant to be in reply to Liam (I had to post it four times before it arrived)
Doh, I meant dead at the start of the cage match, whether he’s dead or not by the end is of course for us to decide.
I need a holiday.
“In short? Kvothe is a far more fully-rounded character, with a wider and more interesting bag of tricks. He also has the element of myster about his powers, since we have not discovered them all yet. Dumbledore on the other hand is a beefed up stock character, the seemingly batty senile old wizard master, with none of the depth and complexity of Kvothe. Given this, I argue that on balance Kvothe would win out in more scenarios due to his broader range of talents.”
I’d have to disagree with you there. With the magic of the Harry Potter world, Dumbledore has by far a wider variety of battle options than Kvothe. From shooting fire(like when fighting the Inferi) to shooting birds (as Hermione did). Hey, he could go into the battle invisible. He could apparate right in front of Kvothe and immediately cast a hex on him.
You note that Kvothe could make explosives. In that same sense, couldn’t Dumbledore use magical artifacts? Kvothe is an intellectual and artsy type. There are certain books in Harry Potter that do stuff like “sear the readers eyes” or makes it that the reader can’t stop reading. Kvothe is curious about magic right? Couldn’t Dumbledore somehow bring this and slip it to him? It only takes one look.
Before Dumbledore died, he was in possession of the Deathly Hallow that resurrects the dead. Since this take Dumbledore before his death, couldn’t he use the stone to resurrect and distract Kvothe with the spirits of his dead family?
How about the Felix Felicis? It’s a potion that causes the drinker to have insanely good luck. Combine that with Dumbledore’s insanely good magical power and skill and he’s theoretically unbeatable.
See my point? Though under the element of magic, Dumbledore has by far the widest variety of different possible ways he can win. As Headmaster of a school, he has way more possible resources, some of which I’ve mentioned above.
What I don’t understand is how you can call him batty and senile. Dumbledore never really exhibited those characteristics. He’s more confident and wise and complex.
None of the depth and complexity of Kvothe? This was the same dude who planned his own death in order to stop the chain of death and destruction caused by the Elder wand. Same way we know very little of Kvothe’s story, do we know much of Dumbledores childhood? How he got two of the three Deathly Hallows and rose up to become the headmaster of the best school in the wizarding world?
If he can’t be considered deep or complex or enigmatic, I don’t know who in the Harry Potter world can…
“If he can’t be considered deep or complex or enigmatic, I don’t know who in the Harry Potter world can… “
Nobody… that’s the whole point.
Run along now.
You guys are crazy. Though I don’t know if Dumbledore would eat his heart… I find it far more likely that he would just keep it in a jar in his office.
DUMBLEDORE 4 LYF!
i speak hebrew,thank you=.=
and i do think kvothe cant bind dumbledore or his wand…
and kvothe cant concentrate,no metter hoa good he is at this…
dumbledore can play freely with his mind using,well,mind magic…
Kali Ma! Brilliant.
I’m not a big Harry Potter fan, but I was going to vote for Dumbledore anyway, because Kvothe is pretty fricken lame. Sorry, don’t mean to offend anyone that loves the guy, but he is boring. I can see already that Dumbledore is going to lose, most likely, but I’ll vote for him anyway. Outside of its hillarity, the whole thing follows through pretty well. No name speaking for you, whippersnapper. Now stand still, and don’t make me rip out your heart.
Alt write up
Kvothe walked into the room and saw a large mirror in the centre of it. Curious as to why someone would havev a room just for a mirror he walked quietly up to it.
There he saw his father and mother sitting with him. His father was playing something but the music did not make it past the glass of the mirror.
“Son of a…” Kvothe muttered as he turned around to find Dumbledore standing their a beautific smile on his face.
“Well not Kvothe I see you found the Mirror of Erised.” Dumbledore said the smile not slipping from his face.
“That was a dirty trick, making someone who lost their family in early childhood see their parents, if only in an illusion. I thought you were better than that.” Kvothe said
Dumbledore pulled out his wand.
“Apparently not”
Kvothe quickly brought out the items he had stashed away in one of his many pockets. A twig and some cloth. He muttered something under his breath.
Dumbledore frowned slightly at the strange wand that Kvothe had.
“Kvothe you don’t have to do this you know, you’re better than that.”
“Shut up old man” Kvothe responded forcefully throwing the twig as far as he could. Dumbledores wand flew out of his hand.
“Ah yes, I see you’re not a one sided character, who had depth added to him only after 6 books. My mistake.”
Kvothe smiles and whispers Dumbledores name.
“Go jump of a tower.”
And so Dumbledore did.
Kvothe wins
I’ve already said my piece as to why I think Kvothe *can* win (and since this is basically a popularity contest, since I like Kvothe more and believe can win, he does in my mind), but what I don’t get is that people didn’t like NOTW.
“Kvothe is pretty fricken lame” WTF?!?! if by lame you mean witty, funny, hard working, talented, crazy, and awesome.
Beastly, I have a hard time in believing you even read the book. A fiddle? You read 700 pages and came out that thinking he played the goddamn fiddle? And you say his music is “barely worth a thought more than a way to earn those few extra coins he needs”. You must have missed the dozen or so times he desribes his music and lute as an integral part of his life and how music affects him.
You then go on to say,”he’s such a goody two-shoes that he spends all his time grounded, because otherwise he couldn’t be a people’s hero could he? I mean, woe betide that he develop any sort of arrogance or sense of entitlement for his having super powers.”
I don’t even know where you’re going with this. It doesn’t even make sense. Goody two shoes don’t get charged with malfeasence – twice, and once was on a teacher! Nor do they skip a few days worth of school to hunt people down, nor break into buildings, nor write that song “Jackass”.
Just because he works harder than just about anyone doesn’t mean he’s an ass kisser. Sure, he knows he’s smart (as all smart people do) but he busts his ass to make the most of it (as all successful smart people do)
And just for the record, “(It’s a lute, not a fiddle. That’s like saying Dumbledore fights with his dick instead of his wand.)” made me laugh my ass off.
As much as I liked The Name of the Wind, I am astounded at the love Kvothe has received. He is being portrayed as this world beater who can Name someone out of existence. From what I have read, there is only one thing we know for sure he knows the name of, and that is Wind (an argument can be made for Iron). We do know that he is a broken shell of a man who has changed his name in order to hide from his enemies, hardly the action of an awesome world beater. If your argument is that this is a fight at their respective heydays, we as readers have no clue as to what Kvothe was like in his heyday, since it HAS NOT BEEN REVEALED YET. C’mon people, in what we have read so far, Kvothe isn’t nearly the most powerful person in his own universe.
Tsur, you still haven’t explained why Kvothe just plain “can’t concentrate.” Sympathy requires ridiculous amounts of concentration, such as believing three contradictory things at once. And that means truly believing. Riding crop belief. Immovable, unshakable belief. In three contradictory things. There are other sympathist magics and mind games like Seek the Stone that require you to split your mind into two people. Many adults go insane just attempting this, but Kvothe is a master of it at age twelve. Saying that Kvothe can’t concentrate is just invalid and silly, like saying that Dumbledore is going to just sit there and let Kvothe take one of his hairs for a voodoo doll.
this is so sad , dumbledore is loosing to Kvothe
by the polls.
Some idiots are voting for kvothe just to take revenge against dumbledore for defeating raistilin
I don’t think Kvothe can make it past the Jaime juggernaut, which means we won’t see an all-Namer final. Pity, because Ged vs. Kvothe would be an interesting match, all about character rather than power.
“First of all, obviously you are horribly ignorant of general Harry Potter info. What tree did Dumbledore get his wand from? Ummm, actually his wand was made by Death himself. Ummm, goodluck with finding what Death made the wand of.”
1) It’s called the “Elder Wand” – meaning it’s made from an elder tree
2) It’s not actually made by death. The three Peverell brothers were just exceptionally gifted, and the story about death was a folk tale later told about the items (Dumbledore suggests that this is the more likely scenario).
The problem with calling someone “horribly ignorant” is that you’ve got to be confident that you’re actually correct.
I doubt it will be Ged vs kvothe when the ridiculously overpowered Rand is still in the ring. He’s almost as bad as Richard rahl.
It boggles my mind though that people can claim to think tNotw was lame, then vote for a Harry potter character. That’s like saying you hated Indiana jones, but loved the davinci code. Isn’t Harry potter some kind of lame child prodigy too? Kvothe is just smart, having had an upbringing that fully developed his talents and intellect. Then to top things off he works himself to the bone to improve.
Another point for kvothe is that it’s reasonable to assume he will defeat the chandrian by the end of the trilogy. If he can beat him, he can beat dumbledore.
I’m curious why they didn’t pick HP though. Would have made this much more heated
@Yomi
1. I did not know there was such thing as an Elder tree. In fact, I don’t know information about any trees at all.
I just assumed it was called the “Elder” wand because of it’s seniority to regular wands. By seniority, I mean superiority.
2. You cannot actually state or claim that the wand was not given/made by Death. Dumbledore “suspecting” that it was just a myth, kind of like Dumbledore “suspecting” that prophecys don’t hold any power, does not make that canon as a fact. Though brilliant, Dumbledore wasn’t alive then or didn’t witness creation AND he has been wrong about things before, so we might as well go by what the original holders claimed.
Ummm, no Harry Potter really isn’t a lame child prodigy. That would be Hermione.
He is good at Quidditch and I guess good at dueling, but I don’t think that gets him into child prodigy status.
Nevertheless, from all the posts I’ve read here, Kvothe is hiding out from enemies as a retired bartender. Correct?
It’s just as reasonable to assume the chandrian is one of those enemies than to assume he automatically defeated them.
Last, is there any reasoning behind thinking that the chandrian > Dumbledore?
Since Dumbledore is just as brilliant as Kvothe, yet more magical, I’d assume that if Kvothe could be the chandrian – dumbledore could as well.
I always figure dumbledore for a bloodthirsty maniac, he outlives all the most evil wizards in living memory in his own series.
I mean voldemort had to come back from the dead just to get a shot at him, and ran like a bitch when they fought.
All the anti-Dumbledore stuff here is a tad depressing. Just cause he came from a book primarily aimed at children does not mean he cant kick some serious ass when prompted.
This statement -
“”If he can’t be considered deep or complex or enigmatic, I don’t know who in the Harry Potter world can… ”
Nobody… that’s the whole point.
Run along now.”
is just childish and depressing, I doubt the writer has even read Potter, and is simply putting it down because of some SF/F fan snobbery.
That said, Kvothe could probably beat Dumbledore, both are sufficiently powerful to repel any spells that come their way, and are smart enough to raise safeguards against them anyway.
That leaves fighting ability, and Kvothe definitley wins in that respect.
Ps. Both contestants definitley deserved to reach this stage of the contest.
Harry might not be a child prodigy, but he gets away on pure luck, and skilled friends/items. Lucky that Quirrel couldnt touch him
lucky that he had a all-healing bird and goblin sword
lucky that the muderer was his godfather
stupid that he escaped 40+ most skilled dark wizards, and THE worst wizard….
lucky that the Order arrived
lucky/skilled people saved him from tons of death eaters
Pure lucky that again the killing curse rebounded…
he can’t do anything alone except play Quidditch
Don’t get me wrong; I am very happy that the people who actually vote on this understand powers and the basics of rock paper scissors, but I have had problems with EVERY SINGLE ONE of Kvothe’s battles so far.
Whoever has been writing these match-up summaries obviously has no idea of what Kvothe can do. First of all–and this is extremely important–,naming a person by their given true name does not make them poof out of existance. It gives the namer a great power over the named, so they could cause endless pain or bind them to a spot or curse them terribly or make them work against their own will. That being stated, Kvothe *could* cause Dumbledore enough pain to kill him or could impair the great wizard in some way, but he would never make Dumbledore disaparate into nothingness. That is stupid.
Second, simpathy is not magic. Sympathy is a hightened state of thinking and *knowing* (because you don’t really have to know something, just believe it is true and that it is not true and that all is the same and all is different and… ugh, you get the idea) that allows the listener, speaker, namer etc. to influence the world. It may be like magic, but it is not. It is more a combination of sciences, philosophy, art, and rhetoric than anything. Sympathy is not limited to words. Kvothe would not need speech to fight. Yes, muttering bindings might help, but that is just because the words help make the belief strong, as in the challenge of *candles* in TNOTW, where niether student had to continually speak to make the sympathy work.
Third, Kvothe is more than a sing-song voiced lutist with a knack for names. He is also quite the fighter, from what I understand. Though we must wait for the next two books to confirm all of this or flesh out the details (Oh, Pat, please hurry! (Then again, no rush! I know how bad it is to push you! Just do what you can!)), it has been said that Kvothe was taught how to fight with the sword by the Adem, and I am sure he has Folly for a reason! He has killed an angel! TNOTW opened with him beating down Skraels with an iron bar, wearing only old blacksmith’s clothing! There is some martial power locked away in that body, too.
Finally, Kvothe is brilliant. He is a prodigy at just about everything. He doesn’t know everything and can’t do everything, but he learns quickly and thinks abstractly. He is also incredibly dedicated… and lucky. He could think a way out of many bad situations, including being tongue-tied by a warfaring Dumbledore!
All that being said, Dumbledore is the greatest wizard (his) world has ever known. Dumbledore is right powerful, and, even though they take some liberties calling Fawkes an ability and weapon he can use, he does have a lot of power they accurately express. Dumbledore is also beyond brilliant, and this would be a battle of wits and insane counters more than anything.
In the end, I do think Kvoth would win. I hold firmly to this belief, and I voted that way. But it was a good matchup.
In the future, however, and ESPECIALLY if Jaime Lannister makes it through to the next round–which he probably will, seeing the votes so far–the writers need to acknowledge Kvothe’s true power in order to make the fights fair. PLEASE, Suvudu writers, be accurate in your portrayal of Kvothe next time!
“I doubt the writer has even read Potter, and is simply putting it down because of some SF/F fan snobbery.”
I am that writer – and you are exactly correct – and I make no apologies for my snobbery (except to point out that it has nothing to do with being an SF/F fan). I read all genres except YA… YA anything. I am not a young adult… have not been a young adult for several decades. Hence, I don’t read YA Fantasy. I don’t understand why any adult would (Note: nor do I want it explained to me).
Besides being written for children, the main reason I won’t have anything to do with Dumbledore (god, it even hurts to type that silly name) is the fact that his character is a tired, broken-down, run-in-the-ground fantasy trope–that has no place outside of Jr. High book-clubs.
Well… fair enough. You are missing out on alot of good books for a silly reason though.
All I will say is, you’d realise theres alot more to Dumbledore than a tired old wizard stereotype if you actually READ the books. Until you do so, know that most of your statements are unfounded, and unfair.
If people were basing this off of fighting ability, Dumbledore would not have beaten Raistlin and Jaime would not have beaten an Cuthulhu. If they wish it to be a popularity contest, so be it. Bye, bye Dumbledore.
“All I will say is, you’d realise theres alot more to Dumbledore than a tired old wizard stereotype if you actually READ the books.”
So if I read the books, he’ll stop being an ancient, robe-wearing, white-bearded, advisor-type wizard who mutters spells that vaguely sound like latin – while waving a staff and/or wand?
yes
I voted for Kvothe. He has that clever spark, and in the end I think that would carry him through in the end.
But you’re making a mistake; YA isn’t even a real genre. YA is an invention of publishers to appeal to bookstores and make it easier to set up shelves and divide books up. It makes about as much sense to make a book ‘young adult’ as it would to make one ‘middle aged’ or ‘late life.’
In the end, what YA comes down to is ‘can teenagers and college students relate to this character?’ Which almost always mechanically translates to ‘are the characters teenage or college aged?’
There are shitty books out there, and the YA ones get the most attention, with books like Twilight being only the most recent in a long line of horrible books that got far more attention than they deserve. But in the end, 90% of EVERYTHING is shit. Fantasy, Thriller, Horror or otherwise.
J.K. Rolling isn’t the best of authors out there, I’ve figured that out. There are plenty who are excellent; she’s merely decent. But you shouldn’t cut yourself off from an entire section of books just because of the way people market them. =/
“Besides being written for children, the main reason I won’t have anything to do with Dumbledore (god, it even hurts to type that silly name) is the fact that his character is a tired, broken-down, run-in-the-ground fantasy trope–that has no place outside of Jr. High book-clubs.”
please list some of the sf/f books you read so everyone else can make the exact same argument about the characters in the books that you’ve read.
seriously, there’s nothing wrong with not wanting to read a book for any small reason, but you’re putting down a large portion of the sci-fi/fantasy fans with statements like this. and really fiction in general. people like tropes. and people like fiction that plays with well-known “tired” tropes.
Either Kvothe has not lost the use of sympathy or he has a different kind of magic. When Chronicler asks Kvothe to relate his story, here is the beginning of Kvothe’s response from the book:
“Kote stood with his back to the room, a stillness in his body and a terrible silence clenched between his teeth. His right hand, tangled in a clean white cloth, madea slow fist. Eight inches away a bottle shattered. The smell of straberries filled the air alongside the sound of splintering glass.”
I guess this could be sympathy, with a bond between the cloth and the glass. But cloth and glass would get an extermely small percentage transfer. If straw to wick was 3-5% transfer, and they (straw/wick) are made of more similar materials than cloth and glass. Therefore, Kvothe might have learned some different, new magic. Perhaps he learned it with the Fey, Bast’s people.
Another attack which should not be overlooked is that of physical attack. He learned sword fighting from the Adem. And, as Bast puts it after Kvothe defeats five scrael, “You should be dead. You should be dead twice.” This shows his skill as a fighter even without a sword.
Finally, he is clever. In his own words, “I was brilliant. Not just your run-of-the-mill brilliance either. I was extraordinarily brilliant.” This comes from the man who learned most of Temic in one night.
~~~
I’m not being single-minded about all this, either. Dumbledore would have a chance, but I think Kvothe’s got this one for the above reasons.
“But you shouldn’t cut yourself off from an entire section of books just because of the way people market them.”
You make a fair point. I realize I’m being harsh, but I call ‘em like I see ‘em.
“please list some of the sf/f books you read so everyone else can make the exact same argument about the characters in the books that you’ve read.”
Certainly! Almost anything/everything by:
Guy Gavriel Kay, Tim Powers, Neal Stephenson, China Mieville, Richard K. Morgan, Robert Anton Wilson, Peter F. Hamilton, Joe Abercrombie, Adam Troy-Castro, John Scalzi, Michael Flynn, Brian Ruckley, Stanislaw Lem, Dan Simmons, Paul Kearney, Clive Barker, David Anthony Durham, Charles de Lint…
Have at it.
Quick Ben Rocks! i second you on that. Kelhus should also have been here.
How about proper children’s books? None of this Young Adult stuff now
….try Lloyd Alexander; Newberry award or not, his protagonist had more character development than the entire collected works of Terry Brooks (to quote a random example)
Nah… quick Ben would have just been another powerful wizard in the contest whom all of the WoT fanboys would swear up and down would stand no chance against Rand… As many great characters as there are in the Malazan series, and as much as I hate to admit it (because I think this guy is basically a Conan knock-off), the best character from Erickson in this competition would have been Karsa… If for no other reason than he would have provided the ultimate Rock-paper-scissors effect to the tourney because he is immune to magic. So there would be no room for all the WoT fanboys to scream about how Rand would just Balefire him out of existence… Karsa would laugh at Rand, bend him over, and anounce to everyone around, “Witness”….
archon, I mildly disagree, Quick Ben is one of the few non-Godlike characters out there that could give Rand a serious run for his money in a straight power fight. Rand balefires, Quick Ben ducks into warren x, and comes back with a completely different counterattack. Rand counters, and so on. That would be a serious matchup. Having said that, if both Kvothe and Rand make it to the finals, my money is on Kvothe. He’s tricksier, and that matters in a standoff between two characters with equally deadly potential. Rand has more firepower, sure, but a well-placed RPG can take down both a Blackhawk helicopter, and score a “mobility kill” against an M-1 Abrams tank.
Mind you, I’m not saying that Karsa is not awesome. He is in many ways, but his magic resistance is not 100%. His god resistance may be near that level, but Erikson’s magic structures are amazingly complicated, and nothing is simple in those worlds. I look forward to the inclusion of some Malazan characters in CageMatch 2011.
This contest is so insanely stupid. all the people who i’ve heard of and would win in an unbiased world aren’t. Eragon v. Aslan, Eragon should win since Aslan isn’t powerful in the mortal world (I think that’s in the book…) Dumbledore v.Kvothe, Dumbledore justs silences him and kills him (morality has no place in this fight and Dumbledore will kill people) Gandalf v. the gun idiot, Gandalf just makes him burst into flames. Everyone voting in this is pretty much is really stupid
“Everyone voting in this is pretty much is really stupid”
If thinking the complete opposite as you in every single one of the matchs-ups you mentioned makes me stupid…. here’s to hoping that I never get smart.