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Click here for Patrick Rothfuss’ idea of how this fight would go!
It was midmorning, and the autumn sun was hot as Jaime Lannister opened the door of the Waystone Inn. The place was oddly quiet, and he peered through the door, one hand resting lightly on his sword.
The taproom was empty except for a dark-haired young man lounging behind the bar. “Can I help you?”
Jaime stepped inside. “I’m looking for the owner. We have… business.”
The young man stood up straighter. “He’s stepped out for a moment. You’re Jaime?”
Jaime frowned slightly as he looked the young man over. “I am. And you are?”
“Bast.” The young man said with a grin. “He said I’m to make you comfortable if you showed up early. He shouldn’t be more than an hour or two. Can I get you something to drink?”
Jaime moved to sit at the bar. “I don’t suppose you have any decent wine out here in the ass end of nowhere?”
“What do you mean by decent?” Bast asked.
Jaime waved a hand dismissively. “Why don’t you bring out your best bottle? I’ll tell you if it’s something worth drinking.”
Bast looked offended as he headed down the basement stairs, returning a moment later with a dusty bottle.
“Something off the top shelf, I hope,” Jamie said.
“Something from behind the shelf,” Bast said proudly. “I can’t keep track of what the wines are called in these parts, but I’m guessing when you hide a bottle, it’s the good stuff.”
Bast worked a corkscrew and opened the bottle with a deft flourish. Then he brought out a tall wineglass, poured an inch of deep red wine into it, and held it out with an ingratiating smile.
Jaime made no motion to take it. “You drink half.”
Bast glanced down at the glass, then back up, his smile fading. “It tells you a lot about a man when he says something like that.”
Jaime showed his teeth in a sharp, joyless expression that had the shape of a smile. “It says a lot about you,” he said smugly, “that you aren’t willing to drink it.”
Bast gave a dismissive sniff, picked up the glass, and took a mouthful of the dark wine. Then he raised his eyebrows and made an appreciative noise as he picked up the bottle and eyed the engraving on the neck. “I can see why he hid this one,” Bast said, pouring more into the glass. “That’s just lovely.”
Jaime shrugged. “Ah well,” he said. “You know what they say. Better safe than sore,” he held out his hand.
Bast brought the glass close to his chest, his blue eyes icy. “This is my drink now.” He took another sip of the wine. “Rude guests go thirsty. Drink your own piss for all I care.”
Jaime’s expression went dark. “I’m not here for you,” he said. “But killing you wouldn’t be far out of my way.”
They stared at each other for a while across the bar. After a moment, Bast set the bottle down hard on the bar. “Fine,” he said, nudging it so it slid forward. “I won’t insult you by offering you a glass or anything. I could poison that, too. You’ll just have to drink it right from the bottle…” Bast grinned. “Like an unlettered cretin.”
Jaime picked up the bottle. “Boy,” he said. “If it makes you feel brave to show your teeth to me, go right ahead. But I’ll only tolerate so much.” He took a drink straight from the bottle, paused, and took another slower drink as if to make sure of something. He looked surprised. “Well, that is good, isn’t it?”
Bast nodded and took another sip.
“Did he say when he’ll be back?”
Bast looked down at his feet. “A couple hours,” he said with an odd tone in his voice. “He wasn’t expecting you until noon.”
“Don’t look so glum, boy,” Jaime said. “Look at the bright side. In a couple hours I’ll be on my way and you’ll be the owner of this fine inn.”
Bast looked up and his eyes were anxious. “I don’t suppose I could convince you to call this off?”
Jaime gave a humorless laugh and took another drink. “Good lord, boy. Why on earth would I do that?”
“Human decency?” Bast said.
Something about this struck the golden-haired man as funny, and he erupted into a great belly laugh that lasted for nearly a minute. Eventually he trailed off, wiping the water from his eyes. “You just earned yourself a tip, boy.” He shook his head in disbelief and took another drink.
“It’s just that…” Bast began.
“Look, boy.” Jaime leaned forward onto the bar. “I can tell you’re a talker. You probably learned that from him. I hear he’s got a silver tongue on him. Talked his way right out of the fight with the god-lion.” He gave Bast a serious look, his eyes hard as flint. “But that isn’t going to do him any good here.”
Jamie took another drink from the bottle before continuing. “You see, I’ve done some asking around. Your Kvothe has a bit of a reputation. Clever, quick. Devil with a sword. Strong as a bear. He can call down fire and lightning.” Jaime shook his head. “But I think all that is just stories. And the parts that aren’t just stories, he lost long ago.” He looked around the empty inn. “He wouldn’t be hiding here if he still had a scrap of power to call his own.”
Bast looked dejected, but he didn’t say anything.
“I’ll offer him a chance to surrender.” Jaime said magnanimously. “As thanks for this excellent bottle of wine.” He took one last drink and pushed it away from himself on the bar. “That’s enough of that. Start to turn my head, otherwise.”
“He might surprise you.” Bast said.
“With what?” Jaime said, laughing again. “That sword has dust on it, and his magic’s gone from what I hear. His silver tongue isn’t any good on me. He doesn’t even play music any more. What’s left?”
“I need to show you something,” Bast said. “Come here behind the bar.”
Jaime turned his shoulders, then frowned, looking down at his feet.
“Never mind,” Bast said, starting to walk around the bar. “I’ll come over to you.”
“Why can’t I move my legs?” Jaime said, his voice quiet and incredulous.
“Sethora,” Bast said simply. “It tends to start with the legs. You can probably still move your arms. But be careful or you’ll….” Jaime turned on his stool and toppled messily to the floor. “…Yeah. You’ll do that.”
Jaime writhed a bit, turning onto his side. Moving his arms sluggishly he managed to pull a long knife from his belt and throw it at Bast as came out from behind the bar. But the throw went wild and sunk into one of the thick-timbers of the tables.
Bast approached where the big man lay, stepping gracefully as a dancer. He stayed well out of arm’s reach through the man’s final struggles, waiting until he saw the tall man’s breathing grow stiff and labored.
“It was in the wine,” Bast stepped close and brushed the man’s golden hair out of his eyes. “I can’t believe you managed to drink so much of it. You must have the constitution of an ox.”
“But you…” Jaime’s mouth shaped the words though he lacked the breath to say them.
“You think I wouldn’t drink poison for him?” Bast asked. “Then you don’t know anything about him.”
Bast met the man’s glassy eyes. “You’re right. He’s not what he used to be. He’s lost everything. No magic. No music. No joy. No hope. You know what he has? You know what’s left?” Bast leaned closer, his voice low and vicious. “Me!” He practically spat the word, his eyes were wild. “He has me!”
The young man stood, took a fistful of the tall man’s golden hair, and began to drag his limp body across the floor.
Click here for George R.R. Martin’s idea of how the fight will go!
The three Lannisters rode along the forest road side by side.
“Let me understand this,” Jaime said, still incredulous. ”I’ve defeated a witch, a mad god, and a dragon. So now they match me up against an innkeep.” He did not like the sound of that one bit. Cutting down common serving men was hardly the path to glory. There had to be some trap here, some hidden danger. “What did the fellow do that they want him dead so badly? Piss in someone’s beer?”
Tyrion grinned. “Don’t protest too much, brother. You’ve killed innkeeps before.”
Jaime had almost forgotten about him. It annoyed him to be reminded. “Only the one.” The things I do for love. “Our sweet sister insisted.”
“Must I be blamed for everything?” Cersei’s green eyes blazed. “The man deserved it. The service was wretched.”
“Kvothe is rather more than an innkeep, actually, ” Tyrion said, mildly. “Or he was. He sings as well. Plays the lute.”
“An innkeep and a singer. I may well piss myself. Does he knows ‘The Bear and the Maiden Fair?’”
Tyrion laughed. “He may. He’s an educated fellow. Went to a famous school.”
Jaime groaned. “Not another one from that Hogfart’s place? Seven save me.”
“No, not Hogwart’s,” said the dwarf. “This school was more like our Citadel, truth be told. You know, brother, it would not hurt you to read a book from time to time.”
“That’s what I have you for,” said Jaime. “What else do you know about this Kvothe?”
“He’s dabbled in sorcery. Knows the name of the wind, I hear.”
“It had best not be Mariah,” Jaime said darkly.
Tyrion chuckled. “No, that’s from an entirely different tale.”
“I suppose we had best fight indoors, then,” Jaime said. “That should make it more difficult for him to blow me away. Can he use a sword?”
“After a fashion,” said his brother.
Which describes me as well, Jaime thought glumly. Long practice had made him almost adequate with his left hand, but it would never be the equal of the right the Bloody Mummers had taken from him. The golden hand strapped to the end of his stump was the next best thing to useless. It still amazed him that he had survived his first three matches.
They reached the village not long after. A dismal place, Jaime concluded after a quick glance around. The villagers looked fairly dismal too. They stared at the three Lannisters as if they had never seen a lord before. Perhaps they haven’t.
Kvothe’s inn was called the Wayfarer. The common room was crowded when he entered with his siblings. More rustics gaped at them from every hand. Come to see their innkeep die? he wondered. That’s one swift way to settle your account.
One glance from Cersei was enough to send the locals scrambling out of their way. The three Lannisters settled themselves at a table near the door, ignoring the stares. Jaime looked about for his foe. He was not hard to find. He was back by the wine casks, talking intently as his companion scratched upon a parchment. “Who is the scribbler?” he asked.
“His chronicler,” said Tyrion.
Jaime frowned. “Is he writing out some spell or charm to protect him?”
“I think not. Just the story of his life.”
Cersei’s laughter filled the inn. “Oh, how droll. An innkeep with a biographer. ‘Chapter the Fifth, I learn to scrub out pots!”
That was when the youth appeared, with a flagon of wine and three cups. “Our best wine,” he announced. “With the compliments of the house.”
Jaime was not thirsty. Nor did he much like the look of the serving man. He got to his feet. “Time enough for drinking when we’re done.” He strode across the room.
The innkeep broke off what he was saying. “Ser Jaime. You come early. Have a drink, I will be with you shortly. I am not quite done… ”
“Actually, you are.” Jaime slid Widow’s Wail from its scabbard and slashed at the redhead’s neck, all in one swift motion. That might have ended it then and then, but the scribbler was so startled that he raised his hands in dismay, which cost him half a quill and two good fingers… but gave Kvothe the half a heartbeat that he needed to avoid the blow. Jaime kicked the table over as the innkeep came scrambling to his feet, but Kvothe leapt back adroitly. A moment later his own sword was in his hand.
Jaime grinned. “Good,” he said. “Steel on steel. My favorite sort of music.”
The swords did all the singing then. Back and forth across the inn they fought. Jaime pressed the attack at first, hoping to end it quickly, but Kvothe was not unskilled, and his blade turned every blow, and answered cut for cut. The tide turned suddenly as the red-haired singer went on the offense, pressing Jaime back. One slash almost took his nose off. Tyrion and I could have passed for twins, he thought as he danced away.
Kvothe was good, he had to grant him that. Probably as good as Jaime was, fighting without his proper sword hand. But where he still trained every day with the likes of Ilyn Payne, the innkeep spent his time drawing ale and washing dishes and serving bowls of stew, and after a time that began to tell. And Kvothe’s sword was not worthy of its wielder. A decent weapon, no doubt, but Widow’s Wail was Valyrian steel, forged with dragonflame and tempered with spells, and every time the two blades touched another chip was carved from Kvothe’s sword.
And all at once, the innkeep found himself holding half a sword.
That was when the young serving man tried to interfere. But Tyrion had crept up behind him with a dagger, and that put an end to that.
Then Jaime put an end to Kvothe. A feint to the heart, checked by the broken blade, became a killing thrust through the throat.
The scribbler was huddled in the corner, cradling his bloody hand. “Every tale needs an ending, chronicler,” Jaime told him, as he wiped the blood off Widow’s Wail. “There’s yours.” He turned and smiled at the smallfolk. “The drinks are on Casterly Rock, my friends.” Cersei left a pile of golden dragons on the table, to cover the cost of all the wine and beer. “A Lannister always his debts,” she announced, as they took their leave to begin the long ride home.
How we think the fight will go
“I’m sick of this,” Jaime muttered. “Every time I go up against one of these unworthies, the naysayers harp on my lack of magic…and the lack of my hand.”
He looked down where the missing appendage was replaced by the mocking gold–it was worth a fortune, but worthless when it came to these fights.
And yet he had won! Every time, against powerful opponents. Opponents who, he would even admit in hindsight, were not quite as “unworthy” as he might boast. Opponents he had no right besting.
A powerful young witch…
A mind-boggling beast of evil…
A warrior-dragon…
All of them destroyed by his hands.
Hand.
He spat into the ground.
Across the field stood a man–a man that was supposed to have died much earlier, too. Apparently he was one of those who had tried to refuse to fight, but ended up killing his enemies with potent magics.
It is said he can destroy me by simply saying my name.
“Ho, Ser Jaime!” the man called out, causing Jaime to flinch. But the knight didn’t disappear when his name was said. He smiled.
“And to you, Kvothe.”
“I feel it would be unfair for me to just say your true name and be done with this.” Reaching towards his belt, he pulled out a sword. Jaime wasn’t surprised to see he held it competently.
“You say ‘just,’ though, as if that could be an option in the future–as when you are losing to me,” Jaime said, drawing Valyrian steel in a fluid motion.
“I promise you, Ser–I didn’t mean it that way. I am a man who values–”
What he valued was cut off by a vicious swipe of Jaime’s sword. Kvothe, a trained swordsman in his own right, parried easily, although he was taken off guard.
“Fool!” Jaime snarled, launching into an offensive series designed to give Kvothe no time to do anything but react.
And react he did, Jaime noticed. Kvothe’s skill was apparent, and his counters were close to being reversals. It was only Jaime’s experience at dueling that kept him at the advantage–for the moment. He did curse, though, the fact that he was fighting with his off hand. No matter how much he trained, he was still overthinking, and not just fighting on instinct–
Which is when Kvothe’s parry turned into a a glancing cut across his bicep.
For the most part his armor deflected the blow, but it was the surprise of having his own defenses breached–especially so early into the fight–that threw him off. He stepped back, signaling a pause which–given his initial attack–he was surprised Kvothe consented to.
“You fight well,” Kvothe said.
“Screw you!” Jaime yelled. “I will not be patronized by a…a mere jester!” He attacked again and, again, Kvothe blocked all his thrusts and swings. He seemed to show no interest in actually engaging any more offensive maneuvers of his own.
“I am no minstrel,” Kvothe said, his voice quiet. “Just as you are not truly Jaime Lannister.”
Jaime stepped back again, and this time there was fear in his eyes. But, again, Kvothe had said his name, but nothing happened.
“You know nothing of who I truly am,” Jaime said. “And even if you do say my true name, it just proves that you have no more honor than I.”
“Be that as it may, the more I converse with you, the more I realize you need to be cleansed from this world.” Kvothe looked around at the unfamiliar surroundings. “Any world,” he amended.
“Goodbye…Kingslayer.”
Kvothe looked at Jaime–and kept looking at him. He stared in disbelief at Jaime…and then at the knife sticking out of his own chest. He looked back up at Jaime, and saw the Valyrian sword on the ground, dropped so that the knight could throw the knife.
“But…I said…your true name…”
Jaime stood over Kvothe. “If you think of me only as the Kingslayer, then you know me not at all.” Reaching down, he grabbed the hilt of the dagger and jerked upwards. A strangled gurgling sound emitted from Kvothe, but no more words came out.
“But I will certainly be known as Kvothe-slayer from now on.”
Predicted Winner: Jaime Lannister
(Kvothe is a character from Patrick Rothfuss’s novel The Name of the Wind; Jaime Lannister is a character from George R.R. Martin’s A Song of Ice and Fire series.)
Who will win?trends NOTE: THIS MATCH ENDS ON FRIDAY, APRIL 2ND, AT 12 NOON, EST
Watch the video recap for the Round 3 and see our predictions for the final four!
If you found The Silmarillion boring, why did you read it 6 times? If I find a book boring, I count it as bad, personally…
I never made it through ‘The Wheel of Time’, before deciding I disliked it, so I cant reallty refute your anti-AsoIaF rant.
Except to say, I really, really doubt you know what your talking about…
Very Well said Clover, personally I have found GRRM’s work to be the best literature I have ever read. I love the fact that the characters are realistic much the same as yourself. My favourite is also tyrion because no matter how vile the character can be where his enemies or family are concerned george also shows us the other side to him and no character is made completely evil. I especially liked the parts when he became the hand and tried to deliver justice and also to protect sansa stark.
The second thing I love about the series is the very very limited use of magic of any description. The only real things you see are prophecy and foresight which means he focuses alot more on the people playing the game through spies and informants.
If people dont like a book its simply their own opinions but doesnt mean its a poor book. The sales figures and fan basis for all these authors proves otherwise. My self I dont want to read WoT as rand realy doesnt appeal to me but obviously the books have done well.
Thats why imo this will always be a popularity contest and nothing more because none of the wolds created mesh neatly with the others. Its impossible to judge a balanced match between two characters when one is a magic powerhouse and the other comes from a world were magic doesnt even exist. As long as people have a favourite character they will always come up with a way for them to win and the opposition will always point out how their favourite would win. Personally I’ve been pulling for Jaime since the first round and I will continue to do so.
You know what is REALLY hilarious about this whole cage match thing? Fanboys calling each other Fanboys as an insult. I’m pretty sure every single person on this site is a Fanboy, so those of you that like to throw that word around to discredit those whom you don’t agree with, please stop. These comment sections are just turning into a swirling vortex of irony. As awesome as that sounds on paper, its just annoying in real life.
“These comment sections are just turning into a swirling vortex of irony. As awesome as that sounds on paper, its just annoying in real life.”
Oh, no. It’s just as awesome in real life. It makes me giggle uncontrollably when one fanboy has the nerve to drop the f-bomb on another fanboy… and I like to giggle uncontrollably.
So please don’t take away my swirling vortex of irony.
Hey!
I am no fanboy.
You know, being female and all.
LOL, pardon me for not remembering the exact spelling of a book I read some years ago and haven’t glanced at since.
Still doesn’t change the fact that one man’s ‘trash’ fiction is another man’s treasure, so my point stands, regardless of my ignorance about the spelling of one of Tolkien’s more obscurely spelled novels
I’ll admit, bitchy comment was bitchy.
But if you are going to brag about having read a book, not mispelling the title is a bit of a must, IMO.
OTOH, your point stands and is perfectly valid and I totally agree with you on that account.
I strongly disagree with the statement that Jamie would be no match for Kvothe since you don’t know how well that angel could fight in the 1st place. I don’t think Kvothe’s sword that his sword would break, but I do think he is out of practice.
Jamie fighting with his right hand would beat Kvothe in a streight up fight hands down. He is fully armored and a killing machine that only few warriors could match. Kvothe would be wise to use magic. If he could still some of his hair or blood, he could use sympathy on him. Or he could just get straight to the point and use his naming power. Bottom line though is that if it came to Swords and IF Jamie is as good with his left as his right hand then Jamie wins. Jamie would probably kill 3 or 4 of those angels you speak of.
I question why they would enter him in the competition handicapped so. Don’t be mad at Jamie. Of-course its a popularity contest. If it was not all of your contestants would be hanging on the Shrike tree. As far as I am concerned Jamie has his right hand and this is not BS. I rather enjoy it.
Um… I may not be qualified to say this since to be honest with you I’ve only ever read like one of GRRM’s books… but did his description of how the fight might go just seem a bit… flaccid? I just felt like Rothfuss added some serious character nuance and had an intriguing plot, and GRRM’s plan of attack was to just get them into a duel and then bail out by using his character’s ’special sword’ without really allowing the opposition to shine or show his own skills etc. (apart from having a human hand-shiled).
Not meaning to be bitchy, and I’m not trying to say it’s in any way an absolute opinion that everybody else has to agree with… just wondering if I was the only one who thought that…
I know Mike Tyson’s name. That don’t mean I will beat him in a fight. LOL. Oh, I’m awkward and nerdy too. Doubt that would help my chances. Besides. What is that quote of Jamie’s. Run a sword though them and they all Die.
Pat Rothfuss wrote an interesting story highlighting the character of the people involved. It was interesting, seemed true to both characters, and clever.
GRRM wrote… Jaime killing an innkeeper. With only two siblings to help. It was only moderately better than the gloss the guys at Suvudu wrote up in the first place.
Meh. ’salright. I wasn’t looking forward to the wankery of Kvothe vs Rand al’Thor. I was ticked enough at some of the results of the first round, but once Ged got knocked out of the fight, it became hard to care about the results.
Really? First of all Jaimie is a badass, I totally agree with you on the point that he would win if he was as good with his left as he was with his right, but if you remember the end of the most recent book then you will see that he (as someone else wrote) “couldn’t cut his way out of a paper bag” so I hardly think he could kill one angle let alone three or four. Second THIS IS A FUCKING ANGEL WERE TALKING ABOUT of course he/she is going to be an awesome duelist, and not a pushover. Thirdly Kvothe may be out of practice but if you think of the name of the wind you will remember that even though he hasn’t used a sword in a while he was still able to hold off 4-5 of those spider things that were ridiculosly fast, and they had hm surrounded. Fially I would like to than you for your comment if it does cause me to rage at you.
Looks like I’m a little late to the game… the polls are closed and (unsurprisingly) Jaime has won. However (surprisingly), not by as big a margin as one would think– the final tally is 6883 Kvothe vs 7898 Jaime. Well done, dear Kvothe, you one-book-wonder. Well done, indeed.
And franti–sorry, but all those arguments (from others too) about how only Jaime would stand a chance against Rand Al’Thor in the final match? Nope: He won with 5603 votes to Drizzt’s 3291.
In other words, EITHER Kvothe or Jaime would’ve beaten Rand. Kvothe was robbed, getting knocked out in the semi-final round. Suvudu–blast your tourney bracket! Kvothte vs Jaime should’ve been the Final!!! XP
How is it that you could read the Silmarillion 6 times but cant get through half of A Game of Thrones? That’s like saying you watched 2001 six times and could not get through half of the matrix. I must also ask the question of why you would read a book that you thought was boring six times?
A game of thrones was an excellent book, but I would not expect anyone who read the silmarillion 6 times, but did not really like it, to have the good judgment needed to recognize how good A game of thrones was.
Furthermore, many of the characters are dispicable on the surface, but you are judging them from the wrong lens. They come from an exceedingly harsh and unforgiving world. Of-course the choices they make will be different then yours or mines.
I loved the characters of A Game of Thrones. Especially Tyrian and Arya. Sometimes characters in the book do despicable things, but when you consider the whole story and the implications behind their actions and their motivations you begin to understand why they make the decisions that they make.
Dude. You did not like the Dialogue! The Dialogue!! I think that was one of the strongest parts of the books. But then again you did say,
“And when I say a book is bad, I know what I am talking about. I read The Silmarilian six times (not actually bad, just boring. I should probably read it again)”.
You read it six times and you still cant figure out whether you like it or not. Game of Thrones is an excellent book. In my own opinion I believed it was better than the Name of the Wind and I read and enjoyed both books. I understand that everything is not for everyone but don’t trash one of my favorite books because your upset that Kvothe got beat. And pleas don’t try to pass yourself off as some kind of authority on the matter when you lacked the ability and the foresight to recognize and read one of the greatest books of your own times.
Well I’m glad I got to see a showdown of write-ups between two authors that I’ve come to really enjoy.
Sadly, I enjoyed GRRM’s less than Rothfuss’. It seemed too arbitrary to me… Still it was a good effort, clearly he went to the trouble of investigating tNotW, and writing it managed to rise ASOIF’s fanbase into voting (like Rotfuss’ managed to, earlier).
Still, Kvothe should have won. He’s not perfect, in fact he is a bit of an ass (thinking himself so much smarter than others, which bites him in the ass more than a few times) and he doesn’t have access to his sympathy and naming (as rothfuss pointed out)but he is the character that should have won.
Of course since Jaime killed Kvothe, they will drink the wine Bast offered them, and will all three of them die.
I feel slightly sorry for Tyrion.
I choose to ignore the fact that they took Jamie’s left hand off. I have stated before that any average fighter would have beaten Jamie with this obvious handicap. I have stated this several times before. I totaly ignore the handicap because its my perogitive and I think that this was a ruse by Suvudu to fix the fight and make it more difficult for Jamie to win the tournament. Notice they don’t list Kvothes lack of sympathy on the least of weaknesses. Or the fact that Dumbledore is technically Dead.
As to this mess about an angel. I agree with what Jamie said on the Suvudu right up. A lot of that stuff is exaggeration.
If he does not have access to naming or sympathy then he does not stand a chance. Then agin if Jamie does not have access to his right hand why is he in the tournament in the 1st place. Can anyone please explain that to me.
P.S. Patrick Rothfuss’s write-up was fantastic! Uh, well, it ended up as Bast beating Jaime, but that line about how he’d take a drink of poison for Kvothe any day (and the somewhat ambiguous fate of Bast afterward) made it really kind of poignant. Great write-up, Pat–and yay for Bast!
You are being bitchy. I agree that Rothfuss rite up was better. I liked what the Suvudu people did more than I liked what GRRM did, but he gave Kvothe his due. The only thing I did not think was believable was Jamie breaking his Sword. I don’t know much about that Sword of Kvothe’s but I doubt it would break.
Write ups asside I read both books. The Name of the Wind was a good book. I would recomend it, and I cant wait to read the next book. A Game of thrones was one of my favorite books of all times.
Jaime can fight with his off-hand, just no where near as well as with his main one.
Similarly, Kvothe can fight even without his sympathy and naming (he saves the chronicler from those… demon-like things I forget the name of) using only an iron bar. Neither character is at their prime, but they have a fighting chance.
I am having such a hard time waiting for the book to come out
Could it be that Amen-Ra is a fan boy? He’s clearly bias (all of this ranting about Drizzt vs. the Shrike, still) but it almost seems as though he’s rooting for Tyrion and Arya against Rand as opposed to Jaime…
Amen-Ra my dear fool, I daresay there is NO method to this madness. You are but a literal manifestation of the completely mental (and yet quite enjoyable) Suvudu cage match.
May the Match continue, and the best (or perhaps the most crazy) contestant win.
I love how everyone takes everything so seriously and personally
That’s the best part of these comments.
As for book sales being telling of quality, let me just say, “Twilight.”
No offense to those who enjoyed reading about angsty teenage vampires.
I haven’t actually read A Game of Thrones, so I won’t get into the Kvothe vs. Jamie argument at this time.
Although I personally think that Kvothe is awesome.
Yes. You appear to have enjoyed EVERY trashy fantasy text in existence, whilst relegating any of even reasonable quality to the “boring” camp.
How old are you, now?
I was disappointed to read GRRM’s account of the fight, especially considering that he could have done so much better. Placed next to Rothfuss’s writeup, it’s glaringly obvious that he perhaps didn’t think about it as much as he could. And he used his characters is such an unrealistic way. (Jamie and Tyrion and Cersei ALL working together? Really?) I suppose if anyone has the right to do such a thing, it’s the author, but when Rothfuss uses this as a chance to give an insight into Bast, it seems very hollow. Oh well. I suppose I shouldn’t be complaining too much as this whole cage match business is an elaborate fanfiction, albeit an interesting one.
Maybe its just me, but i couldnt stand Martin’s books. I got maybe a 1/4 of the way (and that’s probably a generous estimate)before i couldnt read any more. Its a bloody depressing book with characters that you almost have to hate.
I guess some people like that sort of thing, but cmon, Jaime of all people. He threw a kid out of a window to protect his secret, which is…..wait for it…hes screwing his own sister! /facepalm. I read fantasy books as a way to lift my mood when ive got nothing better to do, and instead I ended up with a third rate soap opera. The only positive thing that can be said about the series from my point of view is that its written well.
I think for this contest, we’re supposed to assume Jaime is at his best. If it’s supposed to be when we last saw the character, several of these characters wouldn’t be able to be in the tournament because, well, they’re dead. So I’m assuming rather than reanimating their corpses, we are supposed to entertain the notion that it’s all these characters at their peak.
{How is it that you could read the Silmarillion 6 times but cant get through half of A Game of Thrones? That’s like saying you watched 2001 six times and could not get through half of the matrix. I must also ask the question of why you would read a book that you thought was boring six times?}
I bet you can’t do it without rereading the book once in a while. (also, I haven’t seen 2001 or the Matrix. Come up with a better simile)
I kid of course; I’m really 8 and a half.
First of all, I’m a Tolkien fanatic. Quenta Silmarillion* was boring because it was arranged in history text book format and spanned several ages of Middle Earth. I read it in order to better understand LotR (I’m now reading the History of Middle-Earth: the Lost Road and Other Writings, which may or may not be essential to understanding Tolkien, but oh well). You try memorizing a gazillion years of fictional history just so you can apply it to something else.
{Furthermore, many of the characters are dispicable on the surface, but you are judging them from the wrong lens. They come from an exceedingly harsh and unforgiving world. Of-course the choices they make will be different then yours or mines.}
So what if they come from a harsh world? They are still creeps. And Elezaar the Fool (another dwarf, and enslaved at that) was loveable because though he was self-centered and vindictive, he still can inspire pity. Not just for him, but his master, who though also vindictive and cruel, learned a lot from her slave and mourned his death like she had no other’s. Elezaar is much more realistic, in my ever-so-humble opinion… Elezaar>Tyrian.
hehehehe!!!!
(sorry, couldn’t resist. Bugs bunny made me do it.)
{I loved the characters of A Game of Thrones. Especially Tyrian and Arya. Sometimes characters in the book do despicable things, but when you consider the whole story and the implications behind their actions and their motivations you begin to understand why they make the decisions that they make.}
See above. As for Arya, she wasn’t a creep, but that could be because she was an eight-year-old and therefore not yet corrupted by all her canniving relatives, at least that is the hope.
{Dude. You did not like the Dialogue! The Dialogue!! I think that was one of the strongest parts of the books.}
The Dialogue! The Dialogue!! (in a loud, high pitched squealy voice–the gremlins have me today… O.O) Here’s some decent dialogue:
“They ALL want to see me?”
“Everyone of them, my lord. And they all claim it’s a matter of life or death.”
“I’ve never even heard of half these people. Who is Master Galen?”
“He represents the Bollow Chamber of Commerce.”
“What’s his problem?”
“There is some concern among his members you might prefer to deal with foreign suppliers…given your nationality.”
“So he’s demanding a meeting to make sure the Church doesn’t start ordering vegetables from Devyn?”
“I think that is his major concern, my lord.”
“Then get rid of him. Who is Lord Parquette?”
“Ah, Lord Parquette owns most of the vinyards around Bollow.”
Tell him I don’t drink. Who’s next on the list?”
(Jennifer Fallon: Lord of the Shadows, chapter 43) It’s certainly not the best bit of dialogue in the book, but it’s the first bit I flipped to and considerably better than anything I recall from A Game of Thrones. I left out dialogue tags for simplicity’s sake.
{You read it six times and you still cant figure out whether you like it or not. Game of Thrones is an excellent book. In my own opinion I believed it was better than the Name of the Wind and I read and enjoyed both books. I understand that everything is not for everyone but don’t trash one of my favorite books because your upset that Kvothe got beat. And pleas don’t try to pass yourself off as some kind of authority on the matter when you lacked the ability and the foresight to recognize and read one of the greatest books of your own times.}
I really don’t think I LIKE the Silmarillion. It is a reference book, just like the dictionary (do you LIKE the dictionary?). Second of all, I’m not upset that Kvothe was beaten, since he should have knuckeled under to Aslan. I’m upset that Jaime Lannister WON against ANYBODY!!! I hated A Game of Thrones almost as much as I disliked the Arabian Nightmare, which you must admit has a very catchy title, even if the book itself was the single most frustrating thing in existence. I threw it down the stairs when I finished, not because it was bad, or boring, but because it ended with an enigma! It was awful… A Game of Thrones I did not even bother to finish because I was bored sensless and the plot wasn’t progressing any faster than granite erodes. I wish the author HAD become bored with his own series, just so it could reach a satisfying resolution before the thirtieth century.
And when did I ever pose as an authority on the matter? I’m just a geeky fan (just not of A Game of Thrones). And what does foresight have to do with it? I be confused.
I thank you kindly for taking an interest in my case though.
["no I don't"
"shut up, yes I do."]
WARNING: possessed by Smeagol, but not high nor drunk, unless it be on milk and pie.
[and fish!!!!
no, not fish! And especially not raw.]
*I’m still not entirely sure what happens in Ainulindale and Valaquenta. Akallabeth was just too boring. I skipped it the last few times.
PS: @Tal. If I deigned give my opinion of EVERY trashy novel I have EVER read, you would be reading a novel my own devising. At least a thousand pages. Maybe even a series. And I did not say that those I listed were good, except for the Jennifer Fallon reference at the end.
And since you asked, I’m exactly 8 years old, just to show you how incredibly mature I really am…
PPS:As to those who criticize my spelling, yes I was wrong, but English spelling is even worse than English grammar, which seems to be almost a more common problem on this forum.
Fun Fact: “ghoti” could quite reasonably be pronounced “fish:” “gh” as in “rough,” “o” as in “women,” and “ti” as in “emotion.”
PPPS: If you take everything I say entirely seriously and make reply accordingly, you shall be guilty of homicide; I will die laughing…
“And when I say a book is bad, I know what I am talking about.”
Which means the rest of us don’t? Why, thank you! (’How to win friends and influence people’ in action, folks)
“I kid of course; I’m really 8 and a half.”
I think he meant your physical age. not your mental one. From the statement quoted earlier (and for that matter, if you liked Eragon and didn’t like the Game of Thrones) we already have a fair estimate of the latter.
“All of the above books, in comparison with A Game of Thrones, are gripping, entertaining, and witty.”
(Yeah, and so is the “Enchanted Faraway Tree” series. How’d we miss that?)
aSoIaF not witty? Let’s me also quote, from memory…
“This is Jarl, Val’s latest plaything”
“I am no man’s plaything”
“And Val is no man. I thought you’d have noticed that by now!”
I can think of a few criticisms of “A Game of Thrones” (though I loved the book, make no mistake) but a plot proceeding as slow as granite erodes is not one of them. Unless you expect your plot-line to be not more than 140 characters long and can’t stand to see protagonists bleed and die like real people.
“And when did I ever pose as an authority on the matter?”
Well, a statement like ‘And when I say a book is bad, I know what I am talking about’ is usually a good indicator, wouldn’t you think? But perhaps we all just misinterpreted it.
(But jeeeeeez, if I had read the dictionary six times I’d know the spelling of dictionary at least!)
This is for all those trying to make up your mind whether to read GRRMartin…
I would suggest you lay hands on “the Hedge Knight” (a short novella set on the same world about a hundred years earlier, first published in the original “Legends” anthology if I recall correctly) and try it out – it’s a good starting point in my opinion.
Forgive me if I laugh at you. I mean… what kind of entitlement is having read the Silmarillion and the History of Middle Earth? I’ve read those too. And the Unfinished Tales. And the Letters. And several encyclopaedias and bestiaries and atlases and whatnot. And some other Tolkien books not Middle Earth related (Farmer Giles of Ham, Tree and Leaf). A few years ago I was one of those nerds arguing over whether or not Balrogs have real wings and/or can fly (which remains unclear) and Legolas’s hair color (undefined).
Does that mean I have a better claim than you to knowing what is boring and what not?
Because let me tell you, your choice of literature leaves a bit to be desired. I mean… Eragon? Really? That thing is so derivative it’s practically fanfiction. And don’t get me started on the Dragonlance.
At the end, everything amounts to the same thing: You didn’t like A Game of Thrones. That’s your prerogative. But not liking something doesn’t automatically make it bad. It makes it not to your taste.
BTW, if you want a better understanding of Tolkien’s lore, try the Letters and Tree and Leaf. They contain some really interesting insights. I can’t vouch for them not being boring, though, since they are… well, letters, and a book with an essay and a poem.
‘do you LIKE the dictionary?’
Not really, and I certainly wouldn’t read it 6 times. Why did you decide to read your ‘dictionary’ 6 times? I can understand struggling your way through it once to get a better idea of Tolkiens world, but SIX!?
@ Durwen I’ve already read those. I put off reading the History since I’m not entirely sure reading the works that he already threw out really helps. And you should know, balrog’s wings don’t matter anymore, but Tom Bombadil is still going strong. (lol)
@Gregior That’s the point. I’m glad you comprehend my nonsense so well, considering I was writing in the wee hours of the morning. As for reading the Silmarillion six times, I agree that it was a bad idea. A few years ago, I developed a bad habit of treating it like a book rather than an encyclopedia, so everytime I wanted to figure something out, I ended up rereading the thing.
Gods I really hate you people. It’s for fun!
A question though. Does the seven exist in the matchup, and the same question goes for the creator and the dark one? If Rand fight in Westeros, how can he wield saidin where saidin doesn’t exist?
Fair enough, I understand the compulsion to read through books again for no real reason. Seriously though, you should give aSoIaF another try, some of my favourite books I’ve hated at first read and loved when I went back to them and gave them a chance. I promise you you’ll like it =D
On an entirely different note, has anyone from Suvudu seen GRRM’s challenge?
You can find it here -
http://grrm.livejournal.com/
but I’ll copy what he said
‘Jaime’s last match was fought on Kvothe’s home turf. An away game. Therefore Jaime demands that this final be played out on his own ground, in the tourney grounds outside King’s Landing, according to the customs and traditions of Westeros.
And should the wizards of Suvudu grant THAT request, he further demands that this be made a TRIAL OF SEVEN, to honor the Seven Gods. His right to demand such a format is sanctified by ancient Westerosi custom… and my first Dunk & Egg story, “The Hedge Knight.”
Under the rules of a Trial of Seven, each combatant is allowed to have six companions to fight beside him. Seven against seven. Jaime’s six will all be characters from the worlds and stories of George R.R. Martin (that would be me); Rand is free to fill out his six with characters from the works of Robert Jordan AND Brandon Sanderson. (Yes, he can even include Conan, since Jordan wrote about him).
Seven against seven. For all the marbles.
Jaime’s challenge.
How do the gods of Suvudu rule?’
How much for your aunt? Does she bake cookies?
What books aren’t fan fiction? Really?
So many fantasy/sci-fi (I refuse to use the stupidity that is Sy-Fy. -_-)have been written that it’s really hard not to use ideas used before.
We have two truenamers in this contest (well not anymore but they were) and I’m pretty sure neither are from the same world. (I might be even more convincing if I hadn’t just woke up and wasn’t really hungry.)
Some authors make a better job at hiding that fact than others. Like Edward Scissorhands, (Frankenstein) or The Lion King (Hamlet). LOTR is based off the norse sagas, Watchmen is a parody of some classic comic heroes. I don’t deny that, in the end, everything is derivative to some degree. As a matter of fact, at times I rather enjoy finding what inspired a given work that I’ve enjoyed.
However, if your source of inspiration is so thinly disguised that I can tell it at a first glance… you’re doing it wrong (IMO and YMMV, of course).
What, still? I thought it was quite clear it was a self-insert of Tolkien and his wife. Well, sort-of.
Oh well. We geeks must always find some obscure bit of lore to argue about, no?
I dont know why, but i seem to have read that you ARE GRRM!!, but now it just says “I’ll copy what he said”…
Guess i´m going crazy :p
@Cy Logic has nothing to do with it or it would be Aslan Vs the shrike or cthulhu in the end…..Kvothe would not be here to illogicly lose to Jaime, however, Jaime is the more deeply written characterand….who doesnt love an under dog?….even if he started out his story as an overcat
How the hell can Kvothe lose to Jaime? Don’t get me wrong, Jaime is an amazing, competent character, but he’s missing his sword hand! He can’t fight in that condition!
I love A Song of Ice and Fice (so far, anyway), But for the Final, I shall be voting for Rand, because, ya know, Jaime beat Cthulhu? Seriously? C’mon.
;__; ……
Rand Al thor is getting my vote.
LANNISTER IS GOING DOWN!! :p
(ps. I did read books by both authors and I am fond of them buuut lannister cannot lose to a kvothe. In the first few chapters a washed out kvothe, even with no confidence or spirit manages to sucesfully deal with a bunch of scraelings! that is fae-spider-like things akin to demons!
that aside, that man still CAN FIGHT!)
“ps. I did read books by both authors and I am fond of them buuut lannister cannot lose to a kvothe.”
Are you sure that’s what you meant? After that you seem to be suggesting the exact reverse
I haven’t read A Song Of Ice and FIre and probably never will, so can someone unbiased explain to me how Jaime Lannister is a “more deeply written character” than Kvothe?
Preferabley someone who’s actually read The Name of the Wind.
sorry i mean a washed out kvothe cannot lose to a one-handed lannister!
thanks for the catch!
Having not yet laid hands on NotW, I will make no such claim. I will, however, aver strongly that Jaime is extremely well written.
Sorry for the long post, y’all. But then if you’ve read either of the series left standing so far, I guess I’m well below the average length you can take without being reduced to gibbering idiots 
It’s a bit complicated, you’d have to get at least till book 3. In books 1 and 2 you see Jaime from afar. Other people’s viewpoints (none of whom like him) and you get it thoroughly into your head that he is an uncompromising bastard with shit for honour, an egomaniac who thoroughly deserves whatever nasty thing comes to him, and all of that. Book 3, we start getting some viewpoints from the man himself, and while he himself thinks he is no saint, we get to see some of the reasons behind some of the things he has done, and we realise that he is a far more complex character than we first realised.
Basically, few people in aSoIaF are pure unambiguous black or white, morally speaking, nearly everyone nasty has some redeeming qualities (ok not all, there’s Jaime’s sister Cersei to be at the far end of the (ab)normal curve). And over time, some of them change, become wiser in the ways of the world etc, some of them remain the same but OUR perspective changes, and so there is an evolution, a character development, that is different from anything I’ve seen elsewhere.
Add to it the fact that for many characters, I get the feeling “yeah, I’ve known someone who thinks like that, only less so” – the less so coming from the fact that we live in a society with a lot more in the way of laws to prevent us from doing stuff we’d like to, to the detriment of others. Such laws are much looser in Westeros and hence we have quite a few people doing what they choose to till they run up against someone who gets the drop on them. And no, it isn’t necessary that if A beats B today, and B beats C tomorrow, that A will beat C the day after. There are many people of nearly equal prowess (both in war and in wit, and many have never had the chance to match up against each other. We could do a great cagematch just there, it seems to me….but I digress. And no, I’ve never met someone quite like Gregor Clegane. Which is fine by me.)
Also, the fact that GRRM has this uncomfortable habit of killing off really interesting characters without any warning makes it a great read – I mean, I *know* most protagonists are safe, at least till the end, in practically every other book I read. But in this, I am actually _worried_ when a character I like is in a tight spot. By the end of book 2, I was so inured to the killing that there were just about six characters left who I would have wagered would make it through the next book. (Three of them didn’t:()
All in all, aSoIaF has been unlike anything else I have read. A few other books have captured me with the brilliance of the imagination – Children of Dune (yeah I know most people don’t like it as much as book one but I was blown by the ending), Ender’s Shadow (and Game, to a slightly lesser extent), Player of Games (Iain Banks at his best, I feel), Mission of Gravity, Hyperion, A Fire Upon the Deep, Startide Rising, were all unputdownable….(and several others I can’t remember offhand)….but I can’t remember devouring anything as unstoppably as a Storm of Swords. The bit where Gregor *censor* and the part where Robb *snip* and that terrible bit where Arya *cut* and the hrror of Theon’s *chop*…no, I shan’t tell you….in the words of Robert Jordan, may his soul rest in peace:
“Read And Find Out!”
P.S. Ye who felt that Kvothe should have lost the last match, rejoice – for this day Aslan shall walk again! Happy Easter all…
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
@ cy: As far as being unaccurate abotu Kvothe beating Rand. Guess I was wrong, shrug. My faith in humanity is now rising…