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Click here to see why Peter Brett thinks our analysis is wrong!
How we think the fight will go
Beowulf bode in the burg of the Scyldings,
leader beloved, and long he ruled.
One day most frigid, winter storms,
rolled the rough waves, and the ship
of the king struck land anew.
Walked he, with blade in hand,
haughty helm of gold upon his head.
“What manner of man be you
stranger? Are you in league with demons foul?”
A voice clear but black, choked
with hatred and strength. A man,
tall and marked with strange runes,
upon his flesh did appear. Glinting spear,
held at right, awaiting flesh.
Arlen of Tibbet’s Brook, the
Warded Man of legend. A slayer
of demons, a slayer of men.
“Stay your arms, marked man,
of this strange land. A traveler am I,
made lost by storms at sea.”
But fast, like a polecat’s strike,
did Arlen leap to attack the king,
yet parried, and no spear availed.
Few words he spake, but instead
let the glinting blade sing songs of battle.
Ring and clatter echo’d, a fight
most skilled and well-matched.
‘Til blade met marked flesh,
Arlen falling to knee. Wards unlit,
spear broken and rent asunder.
“Demons tremble and quake,
at the mention of my name.
Yet, slain by man, I am but dust.”
And lo, death’s fell wave washed,
o’er the man tattooed. The king,
paused to reflect on the fallen soul,
turned on heel, hungry for Grendel’s blood.
Predicted Winner: Beowulf (Wards are great against demons, but don’t offer any benefit in a fight with a warrior-king)
NOTE: THIS MATCH ENDS ON THURSDAY, MARCH 10TH, 2011, AT 5 PM, ET
The Warded Man/Arlen is a character from the The Demon Cycle series by Peter V. Brett; Beowulf is a character from one of the oldest Anglo-Saxon stories in history.
The Warded Man image courtesy of Kim Kincaid. Beowulf image courtesy of Ubisoft.
Michael Braff contributed to this Cage Match
Excellent write up
Bloody Awesome Writer
he absorbs demon energy making him as fast and strong as one. the effects are lasting. so he doesn’t just have a bunch of useless wards on his body, stupid people judging the character without reading or knowing anything about the book.
Arlen is well more than an ordinary man who can fight demons, and it would be pretty difficult, to say the least, for an ordinary human warrior to take him down.
However, Beowulf is far from ordinary. According to an original poem, he has the strength of 30 men in each arm. He’s like the Norse equivalent of the demigod heroes from Greek Myth. When they say that Beowulf can rip limbs off of his opponents, they’re really not kidding.
Oh come on! Where would we be, seriously, without Beowulf?? (and I’m opposed to the N/A on his kills…he killed Grendal (ripped off his arm and he crawled to mommy to die), he killed Mommy by beheading her; and then later, he killed a dragon and was fatally wounded in the battle.)
Beowulf all the way
Beowulf ftw. Sorry to Arlen: I loved the Warded Man. But he’s facing a legend here.
The Warded Man would win. While the wards will not activate against Beowulf, they have given The Warded Man strength, speed, and endurance that can be matched by no man. Also, he would not rush into a fight as predicted he would wait for the opponent to make the first move.
@ Stephen Pe:
Did you not read AHEM’s post? Beowulf is not an ordinary man. He clearly has superhuman strength, and likely other physical attributes. In fact, judging by the evidence we have, I’d say his strength is far superior to Arlen’s. Beowulf ripped the arm off of Grendel, a monster who is claimed as being capable himself of tearing ordinary men to pieces without effort. Beowulf is also armored and carrying a sword against an unarmored (probably mostly naked) opponent carrying a spear (presuming Arlen actually has the spear: as I recall, it left his possession before he became the Warded Man…could be wrong about that).
Also…he’s effing Beowulf.
@dunno:
Your right about the spear, he had it taken from him before painting his body. Though no one has mentioned Arlen’s ability to de/re constitute his body thus healing any damage received, provided he is conscious to do so of course. Just thought I’d throw that out there for discussion.
Arlen also would have accelerated healing and be able to turn to mist with a thought. Beowulf wouldn’t be able to touch him.
@Lell
yep mist form, thats pretty much what I meant by the whole de/re constitute his body thing. Also dont forget that even if Beowulf cant touch Arlen in this state, neither can Arlen touch Beowulf unless he “RECONSTITUTES” himself back into his solid form.
It seems you never read The Warded Man. He’s infused with demonic magic, making him far stronger than normal humans. I’m aware Beowulf isn’t normal. Arlen also has the ability to de-materialize his body, as well as being extremely proficient at “sharusahk”, the art of the open hand in the Warded Man series. He’s killed hundreds, if not thousands, of demons as well.
@Joe
Heh yeah saw your post only after I had done mine, they done Arlen Poorly somehow giving him the spear which he wouldn’t have and none of the powers he would have.
Beowulf. No question.
Arlen, hands down.
WARNING, SOME POSSIBLE SPOILERS BELOW:
Beowulf may have the strength of 30 men and be able to tear the arms off Grendel, but Arlen tears _demons_ apart with little to no effort and in the processes builds his own powers which include insane strength, speed, stamina, agility, and healing. If the fight takes place at night, you can add all sorts of demon powers including activating his combat wards (stored demon energies), turning to mist, and an unknown amount of ward spells (healing and kinetic attacks at a minimum). Heck, its possible he even has anti-human or anti-material (weapon) wards depending on how you read his encounter with the prince.
It’s pretty obvious the writer hasn’t read the books and isn’t familiar with the character. Especially since Arlen wouldn’t bother starting the fight. Beowulf would be more likely to on the basis of Arlen being “a demon.”
Such foolishness. Beowulf is merely a man. A strong man, but nothing more.
Arlen is an eater of demon flesh, a vessel for demon magic. He might as well be only half-man, and half-demon. Trained in the combat arts, designed to overcome men and demons.
The wards painted on his body aren’t merely to defend against demons and activated by the demons’ touch, no, instead they are activated by the magic of demons. Every contact with demon magic stores a portion of that magic within himself. And he hunts these demons, and he brims with this power.
And if he can store that magic within himself? He can use it. He can activate the wards tattooed on his body at will – he can even draw wards in the air. He has the power to disperse like mist, rendering any physical attack useless, and the powers of superhuman speed, strength, sight and regeneration.
And though Beowulf may be a warrior-king; Arlen is a damn sight more clever. He would lead Beowulf to the battleground of his choosing – he would take the fight into the night where he would reign supreme.
He is the Deliverer. Demons flee in fear, and men gaze in awe.
arlen all the way just because beowulf is a legend and has a magic sword does not mean he can beat arlen who heals super fast is a tactician is super strong and fast and knows many martial arts types also arlen can go intangable at night and heal IMMEDIATELY also he carries a LOT of different weapons and a armored warhorse with him everywhere arlen all the way beowulf has no chance IMO
I think this match up is much closer than anyone suspects, not a stomp either way. Beowulf is not just some peakly powerful human warrior, and Arlen is not just a dude who’s only skill is fighting demons. With the superhuman powers that they both bring to the fray, it could go either way.
After reading Peter Brett’s write-up, I’m leaning more in Arlen’s direction now. It will depend on if Beowulf can overpower him and kill him with his great strength and magic sword despite Arlen’s healing factor. If Beowulf can’t do that, or if Arlen matches him in strength, then it is likely Arlen, the warrior with a greater variety of superhuman powers, who will win.
However, I think in the long run I would prefer it if Beowulf won, if only because his sheer badassery and ‘HE’S BEOWULF’ factor might be one of the few things here that could stand a chance against Jon Snow’s popularity power.
Arlen, by a mile. Not to take away from Beowulf, but having the strength of 30 men is null against someone he can’t hit. Arlen is faster, and can dematerialize at will, heals any damage he sustains faster than even Beowulf can dish it out.
The runes on Arlens’ body may not “activate” against Beowulf, but the runes themselves have absorbed the demon magic, making Arlen hard as steel, and just shy of impervious to mortal weapons. Again, Beowulf can’t hit him, which would completely nullify all of Beowulf’s great strength.
I am 100% in favor with those who say the writer has NEVER read any of Peter V. Brett’s books!
1) Arlen tries not to fight men only because they are needed to fight the demons. Beowulf would have to strike the first blow.
2) If forced to fight, he would fight him in the daylight — I know others have said night time, but Beowulf would have to learn quickly to fight demons as he landed on Arlen’s land, not the other way around.
3) Arlen can disappear and reappear elsewhere — something Beowulf would never have come across in all of his fighting.
4) People have stated Beowulf is a legend — most legends have some sort of truth, but a lot would be for the entertainment of the listener — e.g. the strength of 30 men in each arm!!! — Arlen is fighting the man, not the legend.
Overall, Arlen has the upper hand and I hope those who come here to vote will take a look at what we all have written in Arlen’s favor as the writer wrote it in Beowulf’s favor.
let us beleave they are bot at the same speed and streanth.
arlen might be a deamon, half a deamon or an umbrela- grandal was son of kain,a strong deamon himself, and probobly even more in the pre christian sorce(an immence giant-king?).
healing power is not better then endurance.
anyway, you seem not to understand beawolfs status.
first, he is a human. it is also a germanic lagand.
humans in those stories do not differ much from the gods in potential. their gods can actualy die and their men could be stronger than the usual greek god…
actualy, since its a worrior culture that did not like predectations, they deliberatly excluded demigod of being heroes. beawolf could actualy get more power and credit if he is a man in this culture…
in fact, beuple could literally rase their worth in it: in the traditional tribal sociaty in thr region, when one was mudured hes parent were paid by their status, ot more, depending on the individuals success. a good commoner would be paid more than a bad chieftan.
and we are talking of thr early christian era there. those deamons are as strong as the devil. literally.
in the eyes of the peuple, they were the real death itself…
and grendal sloughtered the dens like it was pest control….
both the heroes and the villans of these stories are epic in comperison to enything written today.
epic enough to twist the odds in the sagas, not that its needed here.
besides, there is no demonic energy there. the magic is a part of your soul, of you and of your physical abilities.in the worlds fatality evrn. its not a functional magic, it is an essencial magic. that means beawolf as a nordic hero, has an advebtage in everything, instead of just having another move…
and it is unexplaied, so its not limited to \energy\.
a mechanical magic is not as epic, not as effective, and not as important. -because- he is a vasel for demonic anergy, will lose.
if one stores demonic energy, it would drain in use or at least sealed by some smart trick.
it does not matter if he gets to scyldin in the write-up unless you beleave the write-up. if they go to denmark, for example, the dds turn violantly twords beawolf. besides, since its written as a saga, its an indication that it actally happens in denmark.
one last thing, you cant searate the man fom the lagend, this is the tales description, just as you cant say arlen is just a person because there are no deamons in reality. the relative story is the base for the characters, hence for the fight.
and yes, this is a legand written as a poem…
its not 30 men in the arm…
its more like 300 in a finger…
after thwe post, you can think they are deferent streanth and speed. now ou know in hwo’s favor.
I can’t figure out a way for Beowulf to win this… Arlen would just plain destroy him.
In the books the only reason Arlen is not so unbalanced as to ruin the story is that he is fighting a near infinite number of demons essentially by himself. Otherwise, there would be no story – he would just stomp all over anyone who bothered him in the least.
It really looks like someone up there just looked at the book covers without actually bothering to check what lies between them.
Maybe if Beowulf could enlist the help of Thor or something… but otherwise, this wouldn’t even be a fight.
That writeup is completely wrong, the author obviously never read Peter Brett’s books. The author just wanted to do the writeup in the voice of Beowulf, without any actual consideration of who Arlen (The Warded Man) is.
Arlen can heal, has superhuman strength and speed and can soooo beat the crap out of beowulf. And anyone who actually read the series would know that jardir has the spear of kaji. He can also use his opponents force against him and can dematerialize at will. Now, that kinda makes you think who will win
Arlen has super human endurance too
I think people seem to forget that Beowulf is a Legendary Warrior, capital L. He’s not just some punk kid with some scribble scratched on his skin in a fantasy novel. Beowulf is OG in the strictest sense; he can fight better, drink harder, and sing louder than any human before him. Beowulf is a hero of MYTH, friends. Even the best fantasy can’t compare to it. Myth doesn’t have the same rules; the Spreadsheet of Objective Strength Comparison for Contemporary Fantasy (taking into account how goddamned good it all is) does not possess the protocols to even understand Mythic counterpart. It’s not as simple as saying “LOL Arlen has sooper spede” and call it quits. You can’t objectively assess Beowulf’s prowess because it’s in a completely and utterly alien set of rules. Sure, he’s only defeated three “demons” but they comprised: 1) A demon that had no problem tearing full-grown, armed and armored men in half and drinking their blood in half the time it takes for someone to stand up; 2) A demon whose blood could melt steel pretty instantly; 3) and an honest-to-christ DRAGON. And he killed the dragon when he was in his SEVENTIES (which is assuming that Beowulf was in his twenties when he killed Grendel and Grendel’s mum, which is debatable).
I would like to hear from other people who have actually read both – actually READ both, not just seen the naked Angelina Jolie version – to see what their opinions are.
No contestant in this competition can fell Beowulf. He is immortal. He was slaying monsters long before any of these authors’ grandmothers’ mothers’ mothers’ mothers’ learned to wield a quill, and he will continue to do so long after world has forgotten the rest. One hundred years from now, few will know or care about “The Demon Cycle,” but Beowulf’s legend will yet live, undiminished in glory.
@Gordon Freemen
To this point, your’s is the only comment worth replying to.
“1) A demon that had no problem tearing full-grown, armed and armored men in half and drinking their blood in half the time it takes for someone to stand up”
The rock demon (Arlen’s first demon kill with the spear of Kaji) was much worse than Grendel ever could be made out as. The Demons in “The Demon Cycle” are intent on taking over the world, and killing EVERY other living thing.
“2) A demon whose blood could melt steel pretty instantly”
That’s pretty tough to compare to, honestly. But it can be countered by the sheer number of demons that Arlen combats at one time.
“3) and an honest-to-christ DRAGON”
Again, a tough one to say Arlen has done better. But to this point, there are no dragons in Arlen’s world. So it comes down to some pretty basic thoughts, in my mind.
Beowulf is mythical, yes. But he is still, just a man. A man that can be injured. Arlen is no longer “just a man”. He is much more than that. He is also kind of a “semi-demon” himself, but without any of the weaknesses of a demon. Not to mention that he is a master strategist, a master of martial arts, and never travels without his horse. Couple those traits with being stronger than even Beowulf, and faster than a horse, will never grow tired and can “evaporate” at will. You find Beowulf going against a trained combatant that has magic protection, is more powerful, faster and can last longer than he can. The outlook is poor for the Myth, because as all others have been, Beowulf too, would prove to be nothing more than an exaggeration.
Arlen’s martial arts were learned when he was a grown-up. Not exactly up to snuff with Norse warrior tradition of training their kids from a very young age. He’s also supposed to be, acc.to Peter Brett, “Spiderman strong”. As this is as close to gospel as we can get, that means that Beowulf, at what sounds like it should be over 12 tons to Spidey’s 10, takes the cake on strength. Evaporation? Sure, but he takes a few moments to reconstitute, and can’t attack in that form. It’ll give him a few escapes, perhaps, but it’d be risky in the long-term.
Ol’ Beowulf can hold his breath for most of a day at the bottom of a lake fighting a demon queen. I don’t think his stamina is an issue either.
As for Twilight Dancer…a horse? Good God, a horse! A real horse! Oh no, not a horse! I can’t believe it! A horse! Wait…
Arlen fights mostly naked, and when he is armed, it’s with a spear, a notoriously poor melee weapon, particularly if the wielder is untrained to fight swordsmen.
So as far as I’m concerned…the best man won.
@ Arlenstheman
Thanks for a non-trolly reply! (no pun intended)
I have an issue with this point: “Beowulf is mythical, yes. But he is still, just a man. A man that can be injured. Arlen is no longer “just a man”.”
My point is, he’s NOT just a man. Even in the original poem, they make it clear that he is Beloved of God. All of his actions are divinely guided; to say that he is in any way measurable to any of the other Geats is simply incorrect. My point about being a hero of Myth being distinct from a run-of-the-mill fantasy hero is, I’ll admit, poorly phrased, but I’ll try to explain it a bit better:
In Myth, there are no rules. In The Aeneid, there are times when Aeneas seems like he’s thirty feet tall, and there are times when he seems like he’s the same size as everyone else. There is a point where he rips a tree from the ground and uses it to kill his opponent from quite a fair distance, and there are times when he’s wandering around in amorous dalliance with a woman whom we have no reason to believe is anything but normal sized. It’s the same with Beowulf. They never say explicitly that he’s larger, etc etc, but his feats of strength (tearing off a demon’s arm who’s big enough to “fill the hall whole”, for instance) should be enough to assume that he is more than a man. Trying to get this across in a modern fantasy novel would be impossible. Even RE Howard’s Conan was bound by his very Manliness, but it is not so with Mythic Heroes. They are as big, as strong, as quick, or as clever as their opponent demands, and they seem to change these attributes at will, which is why I made the crack about the Spreadsheet.
Modern fantasy authors are bound by logical rules. If a character is going to be faster or stronger or deadlier than an opponent, it must have an explicit reason. Arlen has wards that make him superhuman, as well as an indomitable will. Quick Ben has the souls of howevermany other wizards housed in his body. Rand al’Thor was granted powers from the Eye of the World, etc. But Aeneas? He’s powerful because he is. Same with Achilles, Gilgamesh, Cu Chullain and Beowulf. They are not bound by logical rules, so saying “they’re just men” is simply incorrect.
There is no way to logically gauge their strength or power, because all of it comes from sources that are not bound by our logic.
I hope that makes more sense…
Furthermore, you’re assuming a Euhemeristic source for the myth of Beowulf… as that is still simply a way of looking at myth, there’s no way to be sure. We don’t even know who wrote Beowulf, let alone what it’s original, unfucked-with version (before the Christian scribes got to it) looked like. All we have is the poem, and the nature of myth itself.
I still give it to Beowulf.
Wait a second, Gordon, if I read you correctly, your principal argument that Beowulf will win is because he has existed longer in mythology than has Arlen? What kind of logic is that?
Let’s face it. Most people today are wimps compared to those of the past who had dedicated their entire lives to refining their bodies to engines of destruction.
But nobody, no matter how practiced can dissolve their bodies into mist and reform unharmed. Nobody, no matter how conditioned can draw a symbol in the air and make anything happen, much less hurt or heal someone.
Nobody, no matter how smart, can literally, enter the mind of an enemy, overcome and absorb the enemy’s mind into his own.
Arlen has done all of these – and more.
Ripping off an arm is not really all that impressive. Sure, the victim was some kind of demon, but all you really need to accomplish that feat is knowledge and the right leverage. Joints are incredibly mechanical, and if you know what you are doing and have the skill to do it, taking somebody apart (literally) isn’t all that tough. (Getting the knowledge and skill is the real hard part.)
Also, are you really trying to tell me that because modern readers expect the stories they enjoy to be coherent that it creates some kind of weakness in the stories themselves? Really?
A few points that are pretty important as far as Beowulf is concerned. First, Gordon above me is right and I don’t know why everyone seems to think Beowulf is just a man. The poem was written in a time when the most powerful rulers were literally considered to be blessed, by either blood or divine gift or a combination of both, to be absolutely better than anyone else. This is a concept that we, as modern people who understand basic biology and believe in human equality, have a hard time properly conceptualizing. The best modern example is Aragorn who, by virtue of blood (and a monarchist author), is pretty crazily boss. Remember that Beowulf wouldn’t dare subscribe to our concept of human equality.
The second important point is that, since we don’t know all of Beowulf’s life, comparing his experiences with that of other combatants is going to leave everybody else looking pretty good. Beowulf only slew three monsters that we know of and died at the end. That said, whoever decided to create the character wasn’t just signed to a three combat contract. We’ve certainly lost much of the goods overtime. So I think we can safely assume that Beowulf didn’t kill two monsters, go home, and rule for forty or fifty years before popping out of retirement to combat a dragon. That someone slew or held off so many men or elves or demons or dragons or what have you is a good method of determining their prowess, but unless they have experience killing pseudo-god heroes you can’t use it as a reason they would defeat Beowulf.
even if he were he is just a person, in germanic myth its a lot. as i said befour, a german hero could fight a greek gof and win. see the ring/song of the nibalongs. also see my description upstairs.
beowulf also has a stronger magic, since hes magic is both devine and built-in-character, instead of driven out of energy and mechanically explained.
that means he is simply better. at anything.
he has no fancy moves but he does have a predectaited victory.
and even if arlens deamons are tring to take over the world…
bwowulfs deamons are leaturaly as strong as the devil!
they have the devine power of creation!
they are a force of nature- already ruling the world!
and besides, beowulf has the adventage of peuple actualy believing to his story…
these things seamed real, and meaningfull, and thus the power the character holds is stronger- he holds actual power over the world, peuple realy were frightened when hearing of grendal!
mdern peuple are trying to explain things, that is why fantacy tends to make rules. arlen is limited to the story and mechanics. for beowuld everything is possyble.
@ betterideas.
“Wait a second, Gordon, if I read you correctly, your principal argument that Beowulf will win is because he has existed longer in mythology than has Arlen?”
Nope. What I’m saying is that Myth and Fantasy are not equatable in a logical manner. It was more in response to people above trying to say that, because of the Wards, Arlen is inherently stronger or harder than Beowulf, which is simply not true.
“Also, are you really trying to tell me that because modern readers expect the stories they enjoy to be coherent that it creates some kind of weakness in the stories themselves? Really?”
Again, no. Modern fantasy is better now than it ever has been, and I will be the first to stand out and speak to how phenomenally lucky we all are to be living through Fantasy’s Golden Age. My point is that, in dealing with -mythology- it is important to remember that audiences were neither as educated nor as demanding as modern audiences, and therefore, fantastical things happening in the course of a mythical story is par for the course, whereas in modern fantasy, fantastical events have to be justified. It is not a weakness, merely a convention.
The overall point, stripping my previous posts of their pretentiousness, is that the two heroes are not easily equatable, and therefore the arguments that Arlen is stronger or faster are unprovable and therefore useless.
about the mist thing-
it only works at will.
all beowulf has to do is to set a trep.
about mindreading and symbols- as i stated, the mythical magic in beowulf is not detarmined by the amount of moves. beowulf cant melt steal with his blood and he killed grendals mother. his magic is inside his fatality, not in shiny effects.
and he has a magical sword, and we dont know his runic knoledge-he might have one. at least in the original sorce.
about healing- beuwolf endurance will compensate for that lack in abilities.
and his magic sword, the one that decapitates satanic figures, would probobaly cut right throu him, leaving unhealed wounds.
Having read all the posts above, the central deciding factor in Beowulf winning is that he’s legendary. Not simply legendary in his world (which is he truly is), but legendary in ours. Yes, he’s mythological, but he’s only well known because it’s one of the oldest stories we have coming out of Europe. He’s taught in almost every high school in America. That doesn’t make Beowulf invincible; it just makes him better known.
In Peter Brett’s world, Arlen is also the chosen of God, so to speak. He is the Deliverer. He is the one destined to cleanse the world of demons. To base your opinion solely on who is most legendary is flawed. This is the cage match. No one is destined to win anything. Everyone is fair game. And I’m going to put my money on the guy who can deflect weapons, heal any wound and become immaterial.
The main points for debate here seem to be 1) Arlen can become mist thus healing any wound and rendering Beowulf unable to attack him and 2) Arlen is strong than Beowulf because of the sheer number/power of the demons he has defeated/absorbed in comparison to Beowulf’s 3.
1) MIst
Everyone seems to forget that Beowulf wields a magic sword. A magic sword that was able to kill another being who was supposedly immune to all attacks, Grendel’s Mother. Thus, it is not so far to say that the magic of the sword that could kill a demon immune to all harm could also strike someone using demonic power to make himself invulnerable. Add to that the fact that, unlike Grendel’s mother, Arlen can’t make himself invulnerable and attack at the same time and he basically makes himself an open target. With Beowulf’s sword able to harm Arlen, himself being unable to attack and the fact that mist isn’t exactly the fastest thing in the world it would appear that Arlen would only hasten his death if he tried to turn himself to mist to regenerate his wounds.
2) Physical ability
From what I’ve seen of the arguments here, I will consent that Arlen would be able to match Beowulf’s deeds. Slaying Grendel, Grendel’s Mother and a Dragon should be possible with his skill set. Does that make him equal to Beowulf or stronger? Neither. Why? The answer lies within the third battle. Beowulf slayed the dragon (which was stronger than both Grendel and Grendel’s mother) when he was over 70 years old. Meaning that, as it stands, Arlen is basically equal in strength to a 70 year old Beowulf. Sure Beowulf also died after that fight but that was because the dragon poisoned him and not because he was too weak to overcome it completely. Since we know that 70 year old Beowulf (near death) would easily lose to 20 year old Beowulf (at his prime) and Arlen can, with difficulty, match the 70 year old’s deeds we can say that, at least in terms of physical power, Beowulf again has the upper hand.
I have to admit that I’ve never read the books so I don’t really have much else to go on but the comments here to base Arlen’s abilities but from what I’ve seen….my money’s on Beowulf.
I’m not as familiar with the legends of Beowulf as most of the people posting seem to be, but I am very familiar with the Warded Man, and I have to say that Arlen did not deserve to be handed his ass on a platter by the voters. Their respective abilities have been hashed and re-hashed, and I agree with the person who said that when it comes down to it, they are impossible to compare. Not just because they come from different worlds, but because they come from different eras in fantasy. Most older fantasy did not have specific, or even consistent, guidelines for the abilities the characters wielded. The writers, therefore, had free reign to have the characters overcome any obstacle or manifest any new power without the burden of justification or framework. Fantasy audiences now days demand that all powers make sense within the fantastical but defined parameters the author has set up for their world. I would also agree that many people, including quite possibly the person that did the write up, were woefully ignorant of Brett’s work, and therefore just assumed that the legend would prevail. This makes me sad. As in all cases of voting, it would be nice if people had the integrity to only vote if they are informed about their choices. However, I would encourage everyone to educate themselves by reading TWM and TDS, as they are awesome books.
*EDIT*
I read more of the discussion above and see that the very ambiguity I pointed out in Arlen’s defense are being used to say that Beowulf will always overcome any opponent, as he has no limitations. I can kinda see where this argument is coming from, if you are going to stick to the characters within the framework of their own stories. But there has to be some objectivity if we are going to assess relative strengths in the form of a cage match, or there is no fun in doing it, as the outcome is pre-ordained. In legends the protagonist always overcomes, that’s kinda the point of legends. I’m sure in Arlen’s world they’ll be singing songs of his unbelievable, god-touched feats of prowess a thousand years later, all of which will be exaggerated and packed with bullshit. Legends do not compromise, they win definitively. Anyway, like I said, I can see the point, but I don’t think its a good argument in this context.
Again, if you haven’t, read Peter’s books, they are great!
*EDIT*
After reading more of the discussion above, I realize the the very ambiguity I pointed out in defense of Arlen was used in support of Beowulf. While I can see the point being presented, if you are talking about the characters within the realm of their own worlds, I think there has to be some objectivity, or there’s no fun in this whole thing, as the outcome is pre-ordained. Legends being what they are, the protagonist will always win, and definitively win. I’m sure in Arlen’s world legends will be told about his god-touched feats of prowess a thousand years later, and they will be exaggerations and largely full of bullshit. So I can see the point, but just don’t think it is a good argument within the context of a cage match.
Couple things Ill chime in on, as for Wanderer’s comments on the abilities… without reading the books you kinda shooting blind. MIST: Allows for healing AND displacement of Arlen. As for the “magic sword” theory, the demons of the books all have magic attacks with their claws, and these do not get through. If you use the arguement that the sword is different, then anyone else could use the arguement that it isnt. Neither is more valid. However, short of decapitation, instant healing is a pretty big bonus.
As for the 70 year old comment, it would be assumed at 70 he would have more wisdom in these things than at 30. It is entirely possible he would not have won at a younger age. Im not sure id even make them both on an even footing for base strength, but id likely give Arlen the advantage in pure fighting style.
As with all the people above, I believe too many votes were cast by people who never read the books (likely for either).
While I agree that most of the assumed strengths of both warriors are impossible to compare, these comparisons are the basis of this entire process. It is fun to compare and debate about what is impossible to compare. I have read both and do agree that Beowulf is most likely the stronger warrior. However, the two have totally different fighting styles. If Arlen could disarm Beowulf, then his hand-to-hand skill is more likely to win. If both were armed then Beowulf has the advantage considering his weapon prowess.
The one thing that no one has mentioned yet is the key to the fight going in the favor of the warded man. At the end of the second book Arlen learns several new abilities from the demon prince along with quite a bit of knowledge from their battle of wills. Arlen figured out that he can not only change into mist, but he can change his form. He is too pressed for time in the fight with the mimic demon but he definitely mentions that it has opened up 1000’s of possibilities. He also learns that he can draw wards in the air and push magic through them giving them power to shoot out at someone. He heals his horse this way. Who is to say that Beowulf would ever be able to touch Arlen, and would Arlen not just draw a powerful ward in the air to kill Beowulf at the beginning of the fight? I just don’t see Beowulf defeating such a powerfully magical warrior unless his magic is taken away which would mean he wasn’t fighting Arlen. If the magic isn’t in play though, then Beowulf is definitely the victor! Hands down.
So… no contest, Arlen can nearly heal himself forever. The only way Beowolf would win is if he killed Arlen in his sleep. Which is unlikely due to the fact that Arlen NEVER sleeps. Arlen could kill a dragon without trying much I bet. Healing powers aside, Arlen can make any physical blow be useless against him simply be transforming himself.
Want to compare combat experience? Every night Arlen fights and kill and wins against a enemy counting in the upward millions… Arlen with magic charged can easily stand toe to toe with a rock demon. In even in melee combat, Arlen is an amazing armed fighter and could probably kill Beowolf unarmed.
I had a lot of fun thinking about the fight.