SF & Fantasy

Cage Match 2012: Round 3: Erevis Cale versus Rachel Morgan

The Contestants


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Click to view original image source

Erevis Cale
First Chosen of the Shadowlord

Age: 40s
Race: Shade
Weapons / Artifacts: Weaveshear
Redirect magic back at caster with Weaveshear

Rachel Morgan
Owner, Vampiric Charms and former Inderland Security runner
Age: Late 20s
Race: Witch
Weapons / Artifacts: Magic. Really good at magic. Also, sarcasm. Leather pants.
Don’t be near a ley line if you want to survive. Or near Jenks.

The Breakdown


  • Infused with shadowstuff (as a result, can teleport from shadow to shadow, make shadowy duplicates of himself, merge with darkness)
  • Regenerative flesh
  • Powerful user of priestly magic

  • A witch and therefore capable of casting spells and using magic
  • Has a strange love/hate relationship with Trenton Kalamack
  • Best friends are a living vampire and a pixy

  • Sometimes “angsty”

  • Often her own worst enemy due to stubbornness and angst—and getting into those leather pants


How we think the fight will go

How Paul S. Kemp, creator of Erevis Cale, thinks the match will go:

Lightning painted jagged green lines on the starless vault of the Shadowfell’s sky. Thunder rumbled, a deep groan, as if the world were in pain.

And Cale supposed it was.

Shadows roiled around him, their dark churn a reflection of his thoughts. He stood on a balcony in the highest tower of his basalt citadel, staring up at the glowing gash in the sky.

The rift hadn’t shrunk. Cale had murdered two people, thinking that would close and end the crossovers that were destabilizing the multiverse. But the blood he’d spilled had been a libation to indifferent gods. The rift remained as it had been, several leagues wide, glowing green and blue and yellow, a bruise-colored hole in the fabric of the multiverse.

If it weren’t closed soon, he knew, it would consume everything. Everyone everywhere would die. The multiverse would end in nothingness.

He had to learn more of its origin.

Intoning the words to a powerful divination, he smeared shadows across the air before his face, read the meaning in their pattern, in their swirling whorls and spirals. Words came to him, alien words that originated on alien worlds, names of beings he never should have known: Kylar Stern, Revan, Kelsier, Rachel Morgan.
And every name was a symptom of the multiverse’s sickness. All of those beings stood between him and his ability to seal the rift. The rift….

He focused the energy of his spell on the rift, looking for a magical signature, anything that would tell him of its origin. And he soon had it.

His spell pulled a presence from the shadows, showed him the cause of the rift, the towering, dark presence that loomed behind it all, a being with the power of a god, a being whose name Cale now knew.

Anomander Rake.

Rake was responsible for the rift. Rake was responsible for everything.

Cale would have to find him, and then find a way to kill him.

But others stood in the way, beings Rake was using to thwart any attempt to stop him and seal the rift.

Cale would have to kill them first.

He picked a name at random from those he had learned.

Rachel Morgan would be the next to die.

He drew Weaveshear, hooked the foci of his divination onto Rachel Morgan’s name, and so learned the location to which he must travel.

Thunder rumbled anew as he drew the darkness about him, stepped through the shadows, and went off to kill.


He materialized on another world, in the tree line at the edge of an open meadow. A single moon cut a silver crescent in a sky filled with stars he didn’t know. Insects chirped and buzzed. He merged his form with the darkness, turning himself invisible.

Stones decorated the meadow, arranged in a semi-circular pattern. He sensed the magic of the place, though the feel of it was foreign to him.

Rachel Morgan stood in the meadow.

Seeing her, he cursed softly. The darkness around him churned. He’d not expected a woman. Even in his days as a paid assassin, he’d never murdered a woman.

Resolve drained from him, as if pouring through a hole in his heel. He sheathed his blade, unable to act. From the darkness he watched her, a ghost haunting her movements, trying to reconcile himself to blood.

She moved from stone to stone, touching each one in turn, sparks of magic flowing from her fingers as her fingers touched rock. He prowled along the edge of the meadow, a dark, silent shadow trailing her steps. He flashed back on Tazi and Varra, the only two women he’d ever loved, inasmuch as he could love. Rachel Morgan reminded him of them somehow. It wasn’t just her beauty, though there was that. And it wasn’t just the way she brushed her red hair from her face. It was the confidence of her movements, the grace. She was formidable; he could see that.

He imagined he would have liked Rachel Morgan if he hadn’t come to kill her.

Sentimentality made him doubt, and doubt made him sloppy. A branch snapped under his step. Rachel froze, looked over at him, head cocked, eyebrows raised in a question. He would’ve sworn she looked directly at him, saw him for a moment, though that shouldn’t have been possible.

It was excuse enough. He drew the darkness fully about him and rode the shadows back to the Shadowfell. He didn’t have a murder in him, not right then.


Rachel watched the shadowman pull the darkness to him and disappear into it, going back to whatever sunless world he called home.

“Really?” she said. “Dark, shadowy assassin type? That’s what I get? Cliché much, pal? Hell, I’ll bet you have a heart of gold, too, or at least an honorable streak.”

She sat cross-legged on one of the stones of the meadow while the glamour that looked exactly like her—a distraction designed to draw fire—continued to move from stone to stone and cast illusory spells. A leyline bisected the meadow and she’d used its power to fuel a series of defensive wards and magical alarms. She wouldn’t be taken by surprise again, and she wouldn’t be taken from earth, not again. She’d wait out this idiot cosmic game on a leyline, in her meadow. If she were forced to face someone else, to kill someone else, she’d do it on earth.

She’d watched the darkman as he’d watched her glamour. She’d sensed the power in him. But he was no demon, no fey, no kind of being she’d ever seen before. He was…something else.

And yet there was something human in him. She’d seen the hesitation in his yellow eyes, the doubt written in his expression. He’d come to kill her. Of that she had no doubt, but he’d faltered. But he didn’t want to.
She hoped she never saw him again, hoped he’d reconsidered his course. Because she knew that if she did see him again, if he did come back, he would be coming to kill her. And she knew he wouldn’t hesitate again.

“You should’ve taken your shot when you thought you had it, shadowman. That hesitation’s gonna cost you if you come back here.”

She knew quite well how to deal with a man who lived in the dark.


Cale paced his sanctum, out of view of the rift, trying to figure out another course. But there wasn’t, and he knew it.

He stacked coins, played chess against himself, rifled scrolls and books, all of it mundane nonsense designed to file while his conscience caught up with events. In time he came to the only conclusion possible.

He’d have to kill Rachel.

“Damn it.”

Rake would answer for Rachel, for all of the dead, if Cale could make it through to him.

His mind made up, he stepped through the shadows, from his sanctum to the plains of the Shadowfell. From there, he took one last glance up at the rift, the mouth that was eating existence, a reminder to himself of the stakes.

He jingled the coins in his pocket (he must have shoved some of them there while stacking them), put murder on his mind and drew Weaveshear. He pulled the darkness about him and stepped between worlds.


Once more he materialized in the darkness of the tree line. Rachel sat on one of the stones in the center of the meadow, her back to him. He could make it quick. She’d feel nothing.

He stepped out of the trees and into the meadow and the moment he did white light blared from above. It originated from everywhere, fulgent, blinding, hitting him like a physical thing, stripping away the darkness that shrouded him, driving him to his knees. Shadows poured from his flesh, but lingered for only a moment before the light burned them away. He groaned, eyes watering, and tried to feel the darkness of the forest right behind him, but couldn’t. Something blocked his perception.

“Take away the night and you’re like a turtle without your shell,” said a woman’s voice, Rachel Morgan’s voice. She stood and walked a few steps toward him. “Kinda one-dimensional, aren’t you? I mean, darkness is your thing? Really?”

Still holding Weaveshear, fighting against the pain, he crawled on all fours toward her.

“Oh, none of that, now,” she said, and waved a hand.

In response to her words, the earth squirmed under him, the grass and weeds growing, thickening, whipping about. They grabbed at him, wormed their way into his clothing, pulled him down as if trying to draw him into the soil, into a grave. He fought against them, struggled, but every strand of grass or weed he broke, ten took its place. They were wrapping him up, cocooning him. Soon he was covered in them, barely able to move.

“I’m sorry about this,” Rachel said. “But you came here to kill me, right? Probably told yourself ‘Killing’s what I was born to do,’ all hardass like, right?” She shook her head and paced a small circle.“You men and your egos.”

He grunted, tore at the grass, got himself again to all fours, moved in a halting crawl toward her. He needed a shadow, some darkness, but the light of her spell killed them all. There were none in the meadow.

“You’re thinking about the light, aren’t you?” she said. “It’s a simple spell, really. You know what ‘local noon?’ means? No? It means the sun is directly above an object, such that the object casts no shadow. This spell’s like that except in spades. It puts a magical source of illumination directly over every object in the meadow and then stays there, even if the object moves. Hence, no shadows.” She clucked her tongue. “Hence, sad shadowman. And my wards isolate the meadow from everything outside it, so no leaving the field of play, as it were. It’s just you and me, kid.”

She stood maybe ten paces from him.

Grass wormed into his mouth, choking off his air. Weeds clogged his ears, blocked his vision. He was sinking into the earth. Several strands wrapped around his throat and started to squeeze. He gasped, tried to grab at them but couldn’t free an arm. Shadows poured from his flesh, but Rachel’s spell quickly burned them away.

Weaveshear was too big to be of use, so he reached for his dagger with his off-hand, grunting against the pull of the meadow’s vegetation. Sparks exploded in his brain, the lack of air blurring his vision, clouding his thinking. He couldn’t reach his dagger, could only reach his pocket and the handful of coins it held.
He almost laughed at the silliness of it.

And then an idea struck him.

He closed his fist over the coins, pulled his hand free, and squirmed desperately to free up his arm. The vegetation clutched at him, choked him, reached into his throat, his eyes, his ears and nose. He couldn’t breathe; he couldn’t see; he was dying.

“Sorry, darkman,” Rachel said. She sounded far, far away.

“You’re not killing me,” he grunted. “You’re killing everyone.”

She stopped her pacing, faced him. “What’s that now?”

Her hesitation cost her. The grass and weeds relented, just for a moment, and desperation lent him strength. He freed his arm for just a breath and used that breath to cast the handful of coins into the air, in Rachel’s direction.

As he’d hoped, her spell could not keep track of all of them, could not follow the random movement of their flight. For just a fraction of a heartbeat, the coins flew oblique to the magical light of her noontime spell, and as they did, each coin put a tiny shadow on the ground.

And Cale felt them all as they formed, felt their connection to him, each shadow a tiny hole in the defenses Rachel had so carefully crafted. He felt the correspondence between the darkness that bled from his flesh and the shadows cast by the coins. An instant was all he needed, a moment.

He moved from one shadow to another, leapfrogging across the meadow until he materialized behind Rachel. She whirled, eyes wide, words of power forming on her lips, but before she could utter them, he drove Weaveshear up through her ribcage and into her heart. She gasped, a small sound that would haunt Cale a long while.

“I’m sorry, Rachel Morgan,” he said, as she sagged toward him, her hands clutching his cloak.

“What..have…you done?” she said, her blood warm on his hand.

“What I had to,” he said softly. “It’s night now. Rest.”

He cradled her as she died, and after she was gone, the light from her spell failed and darkness reclaimed the meadow. She lay limp in his arms.

Cale stood, pushed away the guilt he felt, and arranged her body in a posture of repose. He closed her eyes, bade her godspeed, and left her there.

As he pulled the night around him and rode it back to the Shadowfell, grief gave way to anger and he shouted the name of his hate into the heavens, the name that had made all of this necessary.


Predicted Winner: Erevis Cale


Check out the previous match!

We’ll be down to just eight characters in Round 4, starting March 26th!

Check out the Bracket

Erevis Cale is a character from the Erevis Cale trilogy by Paul S. Kemp; JRachel Morgan is a character from The Hollows series by Kim Harrison.

Erevis Cale image courtesy of Raymond Swanland and Wizards of the Coast. Rachel Morgan image courtesy of *ValliantCreations

Don’t forget–we’re always looking for fans’ depictions of these characters. Check out the details here

Cage Match fans: We are looking forward to hearing your responses! If possible, please abstain from including potential spoilers about the books in your comments (and if you need spoilers to make your case, start your comments with: “SPOILER ALERT!”


146 Responses to “Cage Match 2012: Round 3: Erevis Cale versus Rachel Morgan”

  1. Tim says:

    Ok, I retract my earlier comment about not voting because it looked like it wasn’t an obvious enough win for Cale. The “Rachel’s a day-walking demon!” fans have reminded me that Rachel’s a demon. Cale has faced down an archdevil on his own plane of Hell multiple times, is a demigod in his own right, the Chosen of his god, Mask, and a powerful cleric as well as an assassin. Basically, you couldn’t pick a character better suited to slay a demon, whatever time it likes to walk. Thankyou, Rachel fans, for convincing me that your character doesn’t have a hope.

  2. Asteron says:

    I think that it is safe to say that given a neutral setting and with both of them going all out, this fight would be long a complicated. However, as these write-ups must be brief, this is what we get…

    Anywho, I have already added the Hollows series to my list…

  3. Shizzlenitts says:

    Amen ricochet173.
    Erevis all the way

  4. Lisa Bee says:

    Rachel of course would kick butt! She always has some little trick up her sleeve & of course her writer ROCKS! *grins* Plus being part demon part witch she has 2 different ways of defending herself! Not to mention werewolf friends,Vampire friends, fairy & elf friends to help kick butt!

  5. samantha says:

    voted for rachel and ordered twilight falling. should be an interesting read.

  6. Mase says:

    @Tracey “Lippy” Lipford

    I think that was mainly for dramatics. As other comments have posted Cale could have cast the Clerical spell Darkness and countered the light. Kemp also avoided having Rachel using a direct spell that Waveshear could have reflected back at her. In a one on one fight I really don’t see how Rachel could win, its kind of a stacked match.

  7. See says:

    Twilight falling is a good start thats where his evolution starts from a normal human into a shade. That’s his first Trilogy . His second trilogy is The twilight wars starting w/ Shadowbred . This is the series were he’s at his peak. Now if you look at amazon the first 2 books of this series is a perfect 5 stars. The last being 4 1/2 stars. Cale is simply one of the best written series ever in the forgotten realms setting.

  8. D.I. Waisanen says:

    One of my main reasons for voting for Cale is that he actually has a good chance against Kylar Stern. If Rachel Morgan fights K.S. it’s just going to be, “Kylar is immune to magic, he can’t be hurt by her!” However, Erevis vs. Kylar would be a very interesting match-up, with both combatants being able to counter magic and having quite a few abilities of their own.

  9. AW says:

    As a Hollows-fan I need to say that it altogether is highly improbable for Rachel to be in such a fight at all, one of her greatest strengths being her love for life. In all the books (10 by now and, each volume about 500 -700 pages and never boring plus absolutely unpredictable^^) she never ever killed anyone and even if attacked by people using about everything to kill her she always finds a way to get everybody out alive. She has such a horror of becoming a murderer – she would never participate in something like that. More likely she would try to bond with her opponent to escape =) her other strength beeing the ability to understand others and turn enemies into friends. Anyway I dare say she would surely stand a good chance against Cale, being able to jump through ley lines, drag him in there, trap him or/ and call on her friends for help. And of course a wound like that wouldn’t kill her for she’s able to run a healing curse and curses won’t have to be said out loud, a thought would be enough. Liking both the characters I think it more probable that who ever would be the underdog would not end up dead but be able to escape. Looking forward to reading the Cale books now XD waiting for the next Kim Harrison.

  10. Guel says:

    If we throw friends into the mix, the match gets even more uneven. Cale hesitated to kill her, whereas Riven would have thought nothing of it. She’d just be a number, dead in the dirt before she knew she was in danger.

  11. Dan says:

    Is we are talking about friends, Erevis Cale has a small group of shadow walker monks to assist him, and are very loyal to the Left and Right hands of Mask. Cale also has Drasek Riven, another of Masks chosen, which is an assassin, and sort of cleric in his own way. Riven can also speak a demonic tongue that can harm those who listen to it. And also has allies within the Lathander clergy .

  12. See says:

    and don’t forget his other friend MAG’s the son of the Arch-devi himself (demon king in hell).

  13. Andrew Jaden says:

    I’m going with Cale. Why? Let’s take a look at his abilities.

    1. Regenerative flesh.
    2. Resistance to spells (not mentioned here, but yes, it’s in the novels)
    3. Weaveshear’s spell-reflecting abilities
    4. Shadowstepping
    5. Clerical spells
    6. Combat ability (as in being able to handle a blade)

    Morgan seems like a formidable character, but from what I’ve seen she’s only good in spellcasting, which is what Erevis is meant to counter. Not to mention that without her spells, Morgan is nothing. She may or may not be able to use hand-to-hand combat, but her reach is short, and let’s face it, unless she casts a spell, her hands will get chopped off at the first opportunity. One may say that she can cast demonic spells and be able to get past Weaveshear and his spell resistance (possible, since some spells do bypass Weaveshear as evidenced in Shadowbred when Cale was in Sakkors battling other shades), but even so, his regeneration will heal off any damage, and clerical spells can help him shrug off the worst damage.

    Also, Erevis wouldn’t have went for the heart — he’d have gone for the head. Instant kill. And he has killed females before (a female slaad named Elura) despite it being stated here that he has yet to kill one. Possibly Kemp wanted to prevent spoilers. Either way, I’m impressed at the amount of fans backing Cale and Morgan. Good stuff :-)

  14. samantha says:

    good to know, see. I had never read any sort of paranormal/fantasy/sci fi/whatever books until my sister made me read harry potter. I read book 1, went to the store, bought books 2-7 and spent a week immersed in potterville. Had the worst headache of my life but I couldn’t stop reading. Since then I have decided to stop being close-minded about any genre and try new things. I put up the link for me in case anyone has any personal favorites I may never have heard about that they want to share. Some of what I pick up makes me want to jab ice picks into my brain to try to carve out the memory of the dreck I’ve just read, so I would appreciate any QUALITY recommendations.

  15. Shizzlenitts says:

    Lol you guys forgot one major point. If we are indeed throwing friends into the mix. Do u really think the GOD mask would let his number one die. Yeah i dont think so.
    Cale is masks investment , no GOD (and i use caps cause Mask is a GOD), is going to allow an investment like Cale be killed.
    So no i dont think we should bring friends into the mix. i know cale would handle rachel quite easily without bringing any friends into it .
    So to conclude , after reading both authors Paul/Kims books Cale is hands down winner.

  16. theAKpal says:

    First off, the Hollows series is one of my all-time favorites. Apart from Elminster novels, I stopped reading D&D novels years ago and know of Cale only through this cage match thing. However, I am intimately familiar with D&D (2nd ed). And, I can say with absolute certainty, that Cale would crush Rachel with little effort.

    As mentioned, Cale has high-level priestly abilities. Since Rachel is part demon, day-walking notwithstanding as most demons are day-walking in D&D (and, I must say, much stronger than Rachel themselves), Cale could banish her, simple and easy, match over. Alternatively, as mentioned, he could cast darkness, suddenly shadows, Cale wins easy. Next, dispel magic. There is nothing in Rachel’s repertoire that can handle dispel magic. Her circles, dispelled. Her glamours, dispelled. Her charms, dispelled. Her paintballs, dispelled. You get the picture. The point is, Cale wins easy. And, I’m not even going into the myriad other spells he could bring into play. There are hundred, dating back 30+ years in official errata.

    Now, let’s take apart Rachel fanboy/girl’s arguments. One, take Cale into Everafter: there are still shadows, he’d simply leave. Not to mention, he probably has a plane shift spell he could bring into play if dropped in the in-between. Run a ley line through him. Not entirely sure how to counter this one, but I have a few ideas: he’s a priest and chosen of a god, by profession, he runs the power of a deity through his mind. A ley line is no match for this. Alternatively, many characters in Kim’s books have ley lines involuntarily run through them, Rachel included, and she’s still alive, so, no, not a guaranteed kill. Also, in D&D, there are mind-protecting spells. He could probably reverse the flow and run the line through her just as easily.

    The plain truth is that there are few characters in any genre that could truly withstand the might of a high-level priest or wizard from the D&D world. There’s a reason for this, it’s really hard to write a compelling story where the protagonist can literally do just about anything they want. It makes setting up intrigue and suspense quite difficult. The reason it works in the game is because, frankly, powergaming rules!

    I read tons of high/urban fantasy involving magic and inevitably compare it to that in D&D. D&D magic is done differently, and in many ways is way more powerful, and especially more flashy. You simply cannot compare Hollows magic with D&D magic, and until you’ve reviewed D&D manuals, you have no idea how powerful this stuff can be.

    TL;DR The Hollows is definitely one of my favorites, and I don’t know who Erevis Cale is. But, as a rational being, and having played insane amounts of D&D, there is no way Rachel could win.

  17. Rachelstopitgirls says:

    I was referred here from some friends and was asked to vote for Rachel. Upon reading the story though I voted for Cale since I want to see how this all plays out. Unfortunaly Cale won’t win as my friends have found out a way to keep re-voting. you know who you are. So to make it fair I’ll tell everyone here what they are doing. They are re-voting by simply clearing history then just stat private browsing vote…. stop private browsing/start private browsing re-vote rinse and repeat.

  18. Dan says:

    Holy shit I was wondering how Rachel got over 400 vote within the last hour. wow shame on you girls .

  19. Dnton says:

    Rachel fans, isn’t duplicate voting rather contemptible? Disappointing to see fans resort to cheating and being sore losers in general.

  20. Jaly says:

    Damn its a shame they have to resort to cheating.

  21. Dnton says:

    Is there any way to notify the staff who are conducting/overseeing this cage match. This cheating kinda disgusts me actually.

  22. Shizzlenitts says:

    Hopefully the organisers can figure this out. its a bit unfair that Cale is winning the whole way and then this happens.
    For the cheaters……thanks for taking out the spirit of competition. shame on u

  23. See says:

    I can confirm this now. all you have to do is bookmark page then start private browsing pull up bookmark vote …. stop private browsing/start private browsing pull up bookmark vote… rinse and repeat. I’m not goona do it though who give a shit its only a competition I have better thing to do with my time. go ahead hens cheat all ya want. sit there in front of your computer and waste your day away…

  24. mal says:

    Nice to know how Rachel advanced passed 1st round………………………..

  25. Dnton says:

    More to do with fangirlism than being a “day-walking” demon and any such mumbo jumbo huh heh

  26. Dnton says:

    More to do with fangirlism than being a \day-walking\ demon and any such mumbo jumbo huh heh

  27. Andrew Jaden says:

    It’s quite funny, actually. Now that Suvudu’s prevented the cheats from re-voting (based on the amount of votes) anyone who reads this and isn’t a Rachel fangirl will only vote for Cale. Nice try cheats, but you only succeeded in turning everyone against your ‘heroine’.

  28. Kael says:

    Suvude, the Rachel votes are jumping at a phenomenal rate again. Please do something about the cheating, it goes against the spirit and integrity of this competition.

  29. Trev says:

    Cheat your asses off b*tches, only way you are going to win

  30. Sumo says:

    wow 40+ votes in a span of 2 mins….get serious

  31. Asteron says:

    This is ridiculous. The fun of this competition has been ruined by cheaters…

  32. Corwin says:

    If the cheating problem is fixed, how is the Rachel side getting about a vote every 3 seconds? I’m sorry, but at this point I don’t believe there are enough new voters around to have that fast of a rate for EITHER side. This is just stupid at this point. I hope you people really enjoy having ruined a cool concept of FAIRLY having a fun competition…Just pathetic!

  33. Kael says:


    To be fair to the Erevis Cale fans, their vote tallies have hardly skyrocketed as much as the Rachel ones. When I checked this site 8 hrs back, Erevis was leading by a 400-500 vote gap, now both vote tallies have gone up in the hundreds, or in Rachel’s case, it’s prob hit a thousand already

  34. Asteron says:

    I was clicking the view results and return to poll buttons to watch how quickly Morgan’s votes went up and I was blocked for “voting” too many times!

    I normally enjoy this every year, but this whole situation has left a sour taste in my mouth. I hope Suvudu does something to correct this. I may just take the Hollows series off of my reading list.

  35. Asteron says:


    If you go to Kim’s Facebook page, you can see where her fans have been encouraging each other to vote multiple times.

    Suvudu, I hope you will do something about this. Not saying that there haven’t been any Cale fans haven’t tried the trick, but they haven’t been nearly as rabid about it as Rachel’s fans…

  36. see says:

    thought I check back here after my raid from wow. just to let everyone know it still works. the problem is not fixed yet. Andrew Jaden has not clue they have not fixed this problem read my above post on how to revote. Calling it a night will check back tomorrow to see how high the hens can get the votes up too

  37. Corwin says:

    Suvudu folks, you need to set up a voting system using the same thing as your comment system. You would have to supply an email (even if the site doesn’t do anything with it) before voting. Its not hard at all, and people don’t have to take much time at all (no creating an account or anything), but at the same time you could cut WAAAAAAAAAAY down on this absurd cheating.

  38. D.I. Waisanen says:

    All right, this has really gotten out of hand. This match needs to be STOPPED and a re-vote conducted. If Rachel Morgan got through to the next round on this, despite how obviously her fans are cheating, I will be absolutely horrified.

    There was a great write-up for Erevis Cale, and the evidence exposed in the comments and information have made it clear that he is the winner. Yet, sore-losers are still trying to push Rachel to win.

    I agree with the suggestion to have voters supply emails. This has just gotten way out of hand.

  39. chosen says:

    suvudu won’t stop the cheating, they never do, they’ll just act like its not happening like they always do. Cheating has become an institution in the cage matches, it happens every year, Rachel’s fans are just more blatant then the rest.

  40. Warby says:

    WOW, this is the first time I’ve seen the cage matches. And I think its cool and fun, and you know in ever game there will be people cheating so don’t get all bent out of shape about it just have fun.

    Plus- Because I’ve been reading all of the cage matches i have found so many books that i would want to buy and read

  41. Corwin says:

    Warby –

    I’m sorry, but there’s no “game” to it if the cheating gets this out of hand. Absolutely, we should expect some people to not be good sports and cheat, but this is absurd. I don’t know what the real figures would look like, but I’ll bet that well over 50% of the votes are a result of cheating.

    To put is simply, there is little “fun” in this when those who want to participate have ZERO chance of influencing it beyond lowering themselves to cheating as well.

    Furthermore, Paul Kemp is (from what I’ve seen) one of if not the only author of his character contributing to the write-ups. Say what you want about his portrayal of things, it is interesting and, to me, one of the more fun parts of this. And while his fans are excited to read more of these, he has come out and asked his fans NOT to participate in cheating, even if it means we lose and never get to see his plotline through to conclusion.

    Meanwhile, Kim Harrison participated in the conversation that apparently prompted the cheating to get out of hand for her fans. Its one thing to expect some cheating, but for the author to CLEARLY promote cheating…Well, I find that very offensive. Say what you will, but she should be above that.

    The only thing I will agree with you on is that this is a good forum for people to find interesting new books to read. But since I feel that my input has ZERO chance to matter (since I personally won’t stoop to voting 100 times in 20 minutes) then I see little reason to pay attention a game of who’s better at cheating. This was a cool concept, but has utterly failed at this point

  42. Ken says:

    Looking at the numbers skyrocket on both sides, it looks like this exploit is being used on both sides. What I find amazing is how close the numbers are tracking. It looks like both sides have some pretty die hard fans.

  43. Warby says:

    Crowin -

    Yeah your right about how this has gotten out of hand. Like come on look at the match between Julia Wicker & Kylar Stren there Total Vote is-2,414 and Cale & Morgan there Total Vote is -8,132. You can easily tell theres been cheating involved. But it’s kind of funny ( you may not think so but to me it is ) that some people are more than willing to spend hours and hours to vote on something that will not matter at the end of the day.

    The Game has gone to
    1) ” Who do you think is a better fighter”
    2) ” What fan group can cheat more”
    3) ” What group of people don’t have a life”

  44. Chris (And not the same as the one above me) says:

    @ Warby
    And so true, that is a serious hole — no, a gaping maw — in the polling software and one that ruins it for the vast majority.

  45. Dnton says:


    Yeah I went to check the Kim Harrison FB page, can’t believe she is so completely dishonest that she prompts her fans to vote more than once. Disgust roils about in my mouth, ptah! Unbelievable!

    Oh well be content (discontent I hope) with your dishonest win, Rachel fans.

  46. Paul S. Kemp says:

    When I was a teenager, I had a heated, prolonged discussion with a fellow geek on the school bus about whether the adamantium in Wolverine’s skeleton was stronger than adamantine, a “super metal” in Dungeons and Dragons. I wince (with an embarrassed smile) when I think about that now, because discussions like that should never be heated and prolonged and can only avoid ridiculousness (if that’s even possible) by engaging in the conversation in a spirit of silly fun.

    I think the CageMatch should be regarded in that same spirit (that is, that of some silly fun). There are no actual stakes here. Irrespective of the outcome (or the write up), nothing happens to Rachel or Cale because they are, you know, fictional characters. No judgment about a character should be inferred from the outcome of the match. Likewise, there are no stakes for the authors involved. Irrespective of the outcome, Ms. Harrison will remain a wildly popular blockbuster author, and I will remain merely a strong mid-list author.

    The idea here is to engage in a little silly fun, maybe get to know writers and/or characters you didn’t know previously, scratch the X v. Y itch that many genre fans have, and otherwise have a smile over the whole thing. It’d be great if we all engaged with it in that spirit. :-)


  47. Jen says:

    Honestly, is this something to get this angry over? The Kim Harrison fans are not cheating because we CAN NOT vote twice. I have heard of people trying to do it and they can’t. If anything, Kim promoting the match on her website has increased the visibility of this site. Which I would think is a good thing. I would have never come to this page if she had not recommended it. I love books and I love science fiction and fantasy. Let’s not all start rolling around in the mud and pulling hair.

  48. Ken says:

    @Paul – I agree totally. I have never read your series before, but I found your write up interesting and your books have definitely gone on my reading list.

    @others – Frankly, given that people are willing to spend hours on end exploiting the system to re-vote, just goes to show how much they care about the characters they author’s have created.

    At this point, I do not believe there is any moral high ground that can be claimed as votes in both camps continue to skyrocket (at this point Cale is ahead by 200 votes). So, please, let’s stop the name calling and finger pointing.

  49. Rachelfan says:

    My main problem with the justifications of all of the Cale fans is this-why is it that his world’s rules are the ones imposed? If Rachel pulls him into the Ever After, which does not exist in his world, why would he be able to just jump out when no one can? I think that when the characters are put together you can’t just pick the character that you want to win to keep all of their abilities. There are things Rachel would lose, too.

  50. KWooden says:

    I always liked the rec.arts.comics.discussion flame wars/threadsover who would win in a fight between…. Jesus or Spiderman

    from what Cale’s fans have said here in posts I think Cale could give the Lord a good trouncing. :-)

    As Paul has said, “Engage in a little silly fun”

    If you are a Rachel fan then create and post here a fictional way that Rachel could beat Cale. If you are a Cale fan than turn it around and tell how you see him beating her. The more far out there and ridiculous the circumstance and situation you have to create to achieve that the better. Then we can all laugh at it and ourselves for taking this so seriously.


    The only thing I didn’t like about the story above was that I thought, having given Rachel the advantage of this super spell that pretty much eliminated all shadows, the big turning point in the battle is that the super daylight spell can’t adjust or compensate for the addition of a few coins. Understand the spell must have already been dealing with literally millions of objects in this space/battleground, every blade of grass, pebble, or branch waving in the breeze that would normally have a shadow for Cale to work with, didn’t. It just seemed a bit “Whoops maybe I gave her to much there, I’m gonna take some back” type moment to me. YMMV

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